STRSS 16 – How to fight short term rental regulations w/ Tricia Moore

Video Transcript

 

00:00:00

This is episode number 16 of the short-term mental success stories podcast. Welcome back to short term rental success stories. I’m your host, Julian Sage. This is a show where I talk to hosts about their journeys and starting and growing the short-term rental business. My goal is that you’ll be able to walk away with practical information. That’ll help you become a better host and learn how to scale your business. I’d like to give a shout out to Bambi 5 0, 0 1, who says great podcasts, keep these coming and thank you for your service. Thank you so much Bambi for the really kind review. And I’m glad that you’re enjoying the show. And I want to thank everybody that just left the stars on the show. We’re up to 15 reviews now, which is really cool since we’ve only been around for about three months, this podcast is still fairly new.

00:00:40

So it is really nice to have people leaving those reviews. It really lets me know that you are enjoying this and that. I should just keep on getting these interviews and keep on trying to get you really awesome content. If you are enjoying the show and looking to grow and learn even more than going over to Short Term, Sage dot com, where I’ve kind of given a little sneak peek of what’s to come next, we do have a couple more shows that will be available for you. One is going to be a news-related show and then another is going to be more of a action oriented type of podcast. So really exciting stuff coming in the works guys, if you haven’t already go on over to YouTube or the Facebook group to be able to connect, because there’s going to be some content that is just going to be YouTube and Facebook exclusive.

00:01:25

So it’s not going to be in the podcast format. So for those of you that just listened to me on iTunes or Stitcher, and I highly recommend that you go on over and connect because there’s some really awesome content that will be available for you guys. And again, if you want to see kind of like a little sneak peek of what it is, they can go to Short Term Sage dot com. And there’s just a little bit of information on those two new shows that are coming out. If you haven’t done so already going over to our Facebook group, the host nation to connect with the community today, I have the honor of speaking with Tricia Moore, founder of citizens for short term rental, a nonprofit that fights short term rental rights and helps teach others how to form their own coalitions. Trisha decided to start citizens for SCR after regulations changed, preventing her from being able to rent her home Short Term in Fairfax county, Fairfax county’s regulations were made tactfully, deceitful and made short-term rentals illegal.

00:02:15

While some of its neighboring counties did not have such a vague and unsupportive regulations. Trisha is now the spokesperson for short-term rental rights and is actively battling lawsuits against members in the community. Hoping to bring about a change allowing members to be able to rent out their homes under better terms. If you are interested in starting a citizens for STR group and learn how to make changes for your county, then please reach out to Trisha in the show notes in our Facebook group, the host nation, if you like my show notes for this episode, go to Short Term Sage dot com backslash S T R one six. Or if you’d like my show notes sent directly to your inbox every week, then go to Short Term Sage dot com backslash show notes with all that being said onto this week’s conversation. Welcome back hosts today. I have the special honor of speaking with Tricia. Trisha, would you please let the audience know a little bit more about who you are and what inspired you to get into short-term rentals?

00:03:07

So my name is Trisha Moore and I am the owner of and executive director of citizens for STR. I actually got into short term rentals 12 years ago. So I can’t believe it’s been that long, but I started in the telecommunications industry for almost 20 years, and I did a variety of jobs from sales to government affairs. And then I had a construction company and in 2008 we had a huge crash. I actually started in the Vacation Rental business in 2007. So I’ve been at this for 12 years. And when it be actually became legal in DC or in the 2008 inauguration, I started helping other people do it. And I had about 60 people that I was managing along with a couple of my own rentals. And we were probably at about 90% occupancy for the inauguration. So Jesse kind of an idea of where I started now, I just manage my own.

00:04:06

And how many properties are you? Are you currently managing just to cuddle? Just a couple. So one of the things, cause we we’ve met in person and, you know, because we both live in the, in the DC area and you know, I D C it’s just such a, there’s so much a variety here. You know, you have Arlington county, you have Fairfax, you have PG Montgomery, there’s all these different counties in such a small area. And every single county has its own different types of rules and regulations. When we met, you were talking to me about a lot about the different types of regulations in the work that you’ve been doing with citizens for short-term rental. So, so what led you to create citizens for short-term rentals?

00:04:51

So in may of 2018, I found out actually in April of 2018, I found out that there was going to be a public hearing in Fairfax county talking specifically about short-term rentals, that there was going to be some major changes to regulations and zoning associated with people being able to rent for less than 30 days. So I actually attended this public hearing meeting, met a couple of people, exchanged a couple of phone numbers and watch what happened and candidly for doing it. As long as I had at that point in time, I was kind of horrified with what I was watching. There were a number of people that got up that spoke for citizens, associations and homeowners associations that were very against short-term rentals. And some of the things that they brought up, I had never heard or experienced myself having had literally thousands and thousands of guests and zero complaints.

00:05:52

And I think that really is really what happened on the average and complaints are very much the one-off. They don’t generally happen. So I, there were very few people that actually got up and stood up for short-term results. There were a few, but not very many. And so I paid attention to who was there. And then I started reaching out through initially the Airbnb community and the HomeAway community to reach out to other people that I could see where in the Northern Virginia area, it was difficult to meet people. So initially I just said, Hey, listen, I’m really concerned about what’s going on. I’d like to get together for coffee. And we actually started meeting at a local coffee shop and we took up a table for about 12 when we started and more than a it’s been a year and now we have 400 followers on Facebook, probably 800 followers and other places we have our own non-profit, it’s just our business. Our group has exploded.

00:06:56

Now, if you could, you know, because when we spoke, you kind of blew my mind with like, what is actually going on within the regulations. And you’ve done a lot of research into exactly like some of the players involved. What’s kind of happening in the space. Do you mind educating the, the, the listeners, what exactly like for, from a regulation standpoint, what, what exactly is going on, like behind the scenes and how does it affect, you know, statewide Tuymans municipality and how like these key players, like the, these key players are getting involved?

00:07:35

Well, so probably in about 2016 timeframe, and I’m quoting this because I don’t have the details right in front of you, that about 2016, the hotels started lobbying across the country. And if you go to our website under resources, so it’s citizens for str.org, and then you go to the resources page and you page down, some of this information will be listed there. So there was an article that came out in a New York times that showed across the country, the hotel associations were lobbying against us. And what they did is they would go state by state. And they’ve been lobbying with the government and local city states and towns and counties for years. So they’re very experienced in doing it. We are not, we little individuals out here, we’re just trying to catch a boat. We’re just trying to make a dollar. So they’re very experienced at it.

00:08:28

And what they started doing is they started going city by city town, by town, state, by state meeting with the regulators and saying how unfair it was that they were having to pay transient occupancy tax. And we were not. So they lobbied and lobbied and lobbied. And in a lot of cases, they have one and there is a lot of money behind you and I’d almost call it dark money, but there’s also a lot of money behind politicians that they are being by the hotel lobby and other individuals that support hotels and not necessarily short-term rentals. So we don’t really have that benefit. And about 2017, there were a number of talks that have been going on for a couple of years. But unfortunately, even though some of the bigger internet platforms were at these meetings, they were kind of kicked out. They weren’t really given a lot of attention.

00:09:21

And to my knowledge, there were never individual homeowners ever invited to these meetings. So these meetings were all going on behind the scenes. None of us were included. And now that it’s really hit, you know, these regulations when they come up a lot of times what happens is they have all these meetings that lead up to a regulation going into place. So they’ll meet with associations, they’ll meet with homeowners associations, they’ll get input from different people. And in Fairfax county’s case Fairfax county, Virginia, they actually sent out a survey. And in my personal opinion, they really skewed the results saying that 26% of the people wanted no regulation at all. While flip that over if 26% of the people didn’t want regulation than 80% of the people do want short-term one-off regulation and they want it to be legal. But what they’ve really done is they have basically shut down our ability to rent short-term rentals at all, or very, very little in Fairfax. They’ve made it really hard.

01:10:26

Yeah. I think, think w you know, when, when you told me that, that when they sent out this poll, they, they basically, where did it, so that it was like what it was like, basically saying everything was negative about short-term rentals. They didn’t really give the option to be able to choose something that was positive.

01:10:43

Exactly. Exactly. So you can actually see the survey into the same place. I said, if you can, again, citizens for str.org and you go to resources, you go down, there’s a PDF file that actually shows the survey from Fairfax county. And as you page through it, it gives you the indication that no, nobody really wants this, but that’s not the case. You really have to flip the numbers and really, really reverse the data. And also look at the questions that were asked. So they ask, for example, do you want no short-term rentals? Do you want short-term rentals zero to 30 days? Or do you want zero short-term rental zero to 60 days while there’s three options? Which one do you pick 60 days? So that’s what they got. And that’s what they did. So it’s, you know, when you go out there and actually talk to the public about this, when you talk to your friends and your neighbors and people that, you know, most people have at this point, use Airbnb, BRBO HomeAway, they’ve taken beach or vacation rentals, and they see there’s a benefit for it. And if you watch the hotel commercials right now, the hotel commercials are pushing for longer term executive stays in rentals that include your ability to make breakfast and lunch and sit back and exercise and run through the neighborhood. They’re basically touting the same kind of information. So they’re really after the market that we’re in,

01:12:04

You know, Fairfax county, it’s one of the, if I don’t know if you have the numbers on you by chance, but it’s one of the most in the, in the Virginia Northern Virginia area, it’s one of the more heavily populated areas. That was really, I think, what was it? Arlington was like the number one for the amount of Airbnbs and then right underneath that was Fairfax.

01:12:28

Yes. So in 2018, there were 31,800. I’m pulling this off the top of my head. I think it was 31,800 visits stays in the Fairfax, Virginia area. And out of that, there were almost no complaints. So say, figure that out. There’s 31,000 visits and almost no complaints. Clearly the people that are doing short term rentals were doing something right. You know, we are taking care of our guests. We’re encouraging them to visit local businesses, go to local restaurants, visit the local sites, go to local parks, you know, a great falls, the air and space museum, and we’re taking excellent care of them or there would be complaints about it. And in addition to that, one of the complaints that comes up pretty regularly, it’s about how there are major changes in the neighborhood character. Well, that stands for something else that just, that really means that you you’re bringing somebody to my neighborhood. That is a stranger, somebody that I don’t know, but the reality is in today’s environment, we get groceries deliver. We get Amazon packages delivered dog walkers, come to the neighborhood, medical personnel, come to the neighborhood. There are strangers coming to your neighborhood every single day. So this is not something different. This is definitely a case of one industry is threatened by competition. And they’re going after us.

01:14:03

Could you, could you just give a, a quick kind of summary walked through of how do the regulations work? Because maybe a lot of people are getting into the space and they think, oh, well, I see other people doing it. Or I looked up, you know, the state of California and California doesn’t have anything on it. So can you walk through like how the regulations break down? Because even in Virginia, like, you know, Alexandria county has like no regulations whatsoever and they’re completely fine with it, but just, you know, just five minutes away in Fairfax county, it’s only, you know, 30 days. So it, you know, or 60 days. So it’s crazy how they, how they can do this. Can you walk through like how the regulations kind of break down from the top to the bottom?

01:14:45

So it really depends on exactly where you are in the state of Virginia. Fairfax county is, is 1.2, 5 million people. It is by far the biggest county. And it’s actually one of the wealthiest in the entire country. We could be our own state. So Fairfax county is really huge. Alexandria city has been touted as a tourist area for many, many years. So Alexandria city is like the golden rule. They’re the best by far Alexandria city embraced this. They looked into it, they partnered with the platforms, the platforms collect the tot tax. They mandate that you register, which is what the state mandated. They mandate that you register and collect tot tax. And that’s pretty much it. They follow city codes. So they follow city codes, regards to parking noise levels, a number of people that you can have in a property. That kind of thing residential use is the bottom line.

01:15:39

And so initially what had happened, and again, you can find this under resources, the state of Virginia mandated that people that anybody doing short-term rentals would register and collect tot tax. And that the local cities, counties and towns may have changed their zoning as they wish to. And that was the big issue, right? There was the may, they may change their, their ordinances. So across the state, what’s happening is they’re calling it basically a Christmas tree in Virginia. So depending on which city you’re in, you might light up one ball and they might do it this way. And then another place, it let it up this way. So last year we were effective at getting a state bill pushed across that was specifically geared towards Fairfax county. And it passed in the Senate 26 to 12. And what that basically said is that we could rent our short-term renters longer, but it got held up in cities, cities, counties, and state and towns commission.

01:16:41

So it got held up, but in Fairfax county, as of today, you can rent a total of 60 days a year, that’s it? So there are three types of rentals, and this is really important. You can rent a room in your house or rooms. You can take, you know, it’s your entire residence. You leave your residence and go someplace else where somebody comes and stays in your house, or you can have a second residence. Now, the first two, if you rent a room, or if you are leaving your property, you can do up to 60 days annually. That’s it. And Senator big pike actually said it best. It’s the equivalent of being able to drive your Uber five days a year. It’s kind of a joke. It’s really a joke. The part that hurts me the worst is if it’s your second residence, which in my case, it is in Fairfax.

01:17:33

If it’s your second residence, you can’t rent it at all. So even though I’ve had no complaints and thousands of guests and had no problems, you can’t rent it at all, which is really sad. So anyway, that’s kind of where the ordinance is today. They additionally set it up so that you have to apply for permit. As of right now, that permit can be posted in front of it has to be your permit number supposed to be posted on the internet platform, which means people can look up your permit number or your information and find out where you are. So there’s privacy issues. And also Fairfax county is mandating that not only do you provide your personal information, but that you provide the information of all your guests. So say you come to stay with me, Julian, you bring your wife and you have two kids and a dog, and they want to know every single person that’s been in your house and how to get in contact with them. So there are privacy issues that are involved with that. And the way that the ordinance is written today, they can actually come in and do search and seizure in your property. If you sign the permit, you’re basically signing away your right to actually privacy. There’s a lot of issues with the ordinance, the way that it is today alive.

01:18:49

So how do you, how do you get to, you know, how does creating a group, you know, a coalition, you know, how, how can you make the changes to be able to get it to like where it is like Alexandria, you know, because obviously there there’s some, someone’s doing something different, you know, somewhere along the, you know, the political landscape, there’s, there’s someone that is saying, this is okay in Alexandria, but it’s not okay in Fairfax. So w who, who’s the one that says that and how do you get someone like that into, you know, into that position in Fairfax?

01:19:25

You know, I think it takes a lot of work and a lot of education and a lot of understanding. So our group tried to meet with each one of the supervisors in Fairfax before the ordinance was implemented. And we were basically we’re shut down, not only by the chairman, but by the entire board, there were some questions that came up and there were some support that was offered within the board of supervisors, which is our executive committee in Fairfax that we work with. But overall, we were basically blocked from day one before they got in and voted. They had already made up their minds before we even got to meet with them. They had already made up their minds, and that was done years prior in the discussion with the hotels and also with the citizens that came forward, people that came forward with the homeowners association.

02:20:16

And we actually found out that one of the presidents for the association and like bar graphs was the previous president or the restaurant association, which is really the hotel lobby. So there was a lot of pressure put on Fairfax county to not open it completely up. And there were a lot of people that came forward out of fear, a lot of citizens that came forward out of fear. So we have to work with those people one at a time, one conversation at a time, one erson at a time, one neighbor at a time. So we’ve done that in a variety of, we meet regularly as a group. We’ve had numerous conversations with all the senators and delegates at the state level. We’ve had numerous conversations with people that are on the board of supervisors. Now we have gotten involved with watching and talking to candidates that are local, which I think is the most important thing is making those local relationships. So they know who we are, and we’re willing to come to the table and work with them at any point in time to help them design and craft a better ordinance for everyone. But it’s going to take a lot of education to get that.

02:21:25

So what, what impacts, you know, what impact does starting a local, like a citizens for a STR group have on a county that is maybe becoming a lot more heavily regulated?

02:21:41

Well, it gives them, if you get started early enough in the game, you know, it gives them a chance to actually talk to the people that are doing it and find out what’s really going on and look at the actual statistics. So they get a better understanding of what’s really happening, and they can actually argue on your behalf and support you. And just for an example, in DC, it’s gonna take me just a second to get there, but I wanted to pull some records from 2017, which is the latest that they have up. So in, just in DC, they had 22.8 million visitors. Fairfax county is Mo is like literally 10 miles from DC. So it’s really close. The visitor spending was equal to $7.5 billion total, total visitor spending. So not just on hotels, that’d be restaurants and places I stay and things they do. And the tax revenue that actually came into DC was 814 million.

02:22:40

Well, you can see those that we’re not talking a small amount of money, $7.5 billion in spending. It’s huge. It is a huge, huge amount of money. So although Fairfax county is just, just a little bit away from DC, a number of our guests that come here and stay in Fairfax county conversation, DC and Fairfax county is missing out on that revenue. The small businesses are missing out on that revenue because when somebody comes to stay at your property, I don’t recommend that they go out to dinner and drive all the way back to DC. I recommend that they go to a local place right around the corner. I’m sorry if you’re seeing my dog, this is, this is coffee and he’s ready for his. So, so anyway, getting a local group together and sharing those numbers and then drilling down to what the actual, you know, the actual concerns are within the neighborhood and Elaine, those fears, and then getting back in front of the politicians can make the difference, whether an ordinance changes or not.

02:23:40

So, so who, who were the key players? Because when I think like, you know how different it is from like one county to the next county, you’re within the same state, you’re basically neighbors. Is there like, just like a key player, that’s making these decisions on whether, you know, it’s going to be highly regulated or not highly regulated. Can you not get someone that is, you know, kind of on the same playing field, as someone from a pro short term rental county into a position where they can make those changes?

02:24:12

I think you can. And I think the criticality is that your vote and your ability to actually vote for local leaders is so critical because you get a chance to talk to people about the issues that matter to you most like this in the United States, there’s over 9,000 thousand cities, counties and towns. So that’s how many different localities there are that can be working on this. So if you have a relationship with your local candidate, if you go to see them at those local meetings, if you’re involved in those community meetings, it makes a huge difference whether or not your voice is actually heard. So at this last election, we supported a number of candidates that came forward, the entire board of supervisors, which has 11 people, half of them retire, half of them retired, went on to other things. And so we have a whole new board of supervisors is the first time this has ever happened since the sixties. So our group was very involved in meeting those local candidates and Dalia who won in Providence, who wants supervisors in Providence. Our members supported her and she came out and won. And she is somebody that used, has used Airbnb as have many of the other supervisors that are involved. So she understands exactly what that means. And I think we have a much better chance of changing something and she committed that she would work on changing it within the first 30 days of being installed in office.

02:25:34

So who, who, who are these people that like, if, is it the mayor that says like the, you know, you’re not allowed to Short Term rent, or you can only have these regulations? Is it, is it even higher than that? If you could kind of break down, like what, from the bottom up, like where, where is it that the changes are really being made? Yes.

02:25:54

So Fairfax county is one of the bigger organizations across the country. Most small towns are not this big. It starts at a very low level and works right through to like the mayor. But in this particular case, Fairfax county is pretty huge. And they have a governmental center who that is huge, that goes along with it. So they have a zoning group and they have a planning and staff that sets aside and looks at these things. Like they looked at the surveys, they met with some people, and then they make a recommendation and they send it up to the board of supervisors. The board of supervisors is so they have a planning commission, which is about 13 people. The planning commission gets together. They hold these public hearings. They ask for input and feedback. But unless you’re on that radar, unless you’re involved in the local politics, you’re not even going to know it.

02:26:44

It was just happenstance that I found out about that public meeting. I actually actually happened to be at a community meeting in DC. I ran into somebody, I knew. He said, well, don’t you have a property in Fairfax? And I said, yes. And he goes, you know, they’re having a meeting in next week. And I think they’re gonna really significantly impact and negatively impact what’s going on. That’s how I found out about it. It’s not like I was on some big west. So unless you’re involved in the local happenings at the planning level, you’re not going to know about this stuff. It’s just going to go right over your head. And most people, until it affects them, they don’t know about it. So after it hits the planning commission and they vote on it, they basically make a recommendation. Then it passes up to the board of supervisors, which is the executive level.

02:27:31

And the executives actually get together. They get, get in behind closed doors and talk about it. They have some club public meetings. They basically, and we had 40 some members and probably 70 some members come and sit in these meetings. And we were told by the board of supervisors, they didn’t believe we were real. They thought we were a bunch of actors because we came out of nowhere because we realized what was happening. We gather quickly and we came forward and testified that they really did not believe we were real people. They thought we had been hired by somebody. So it, those relationships really matter. 

02:28:07

So, so you said that you have to go to a board of supervisor meetings to be able to speak with the people that are going to be coming up with the ideas. So really it kind of goes from the planning committee where they’re getting the ideas, getting the surveys, and then from the planning committee, which is more public than it goes up to the executive, the, the, the board of supervisors.

02:28:34

Yeah. So the planning commission, the planning and zoning commission has had public hearing meetings. And what they’ll do is they’ll have a public meeting and then they’ll have a meeting. You can watch that’s public, but you can’t comment on. And then they take their recommendation and exactly what you said, Julian, they pass it up to the board of supervisors. Board of supervisors will have some public meetings and then they may vote on it that day. So the good thing is regulations change every single day, they can change positively or they can change negatively, but they change every single day. So it’s really critical to be involved and to stay involved because this is how people are making a living. So

02:29:13

The board of supervisors, how do you, how do you like how many people are typically involved in a board of supervisors and how do you get those people in there by supporting them and trying to get them into that position where they, where they can influence that change?

02:29:28

Well, you know, it’s one meaning at a time. So I will have to say in Fairfax county, they did a democratic primary and we are bipolar. I want to say this very clearly. We are absolutely a bipartisan group. We have Republicans, we have Democrats and we have independence and we are across the board and we really support each other. This is all about supporting short-term rentals, residential short-term rentals. So it’s really important that your group stay together. Don’t get divided by anything. Don’t get divided by your politics. Don’t get divided by a person, rents a room versus somebody rent a whole house. It doesn’t matter. Stay together as a group. It’s really critical to do that. And then as you pay attention to these meetings, and I’m just going to talk about one that just happened just recently, I on Facebook and people are politics.

03:30:19

Politicians are very involved in Facebook and Twitter and things like that. So I follow the politicians. Now, I didn’t do this before. So I follow them and they get, I get invited to their events. So for example, this last weekend, there was one in Providence and the chairman of the board was there a number of supervisors were there, all of the candidates that were running for the primary were there as well as the winner of the primary was there. So it gives us an individual chance to go to these meetings and to shake hands and talk to these people on a personal level. We can talk about our families, our kids, our dogs, but we can also talk about the issues that are important to us. These are our politicians we pay taxes for, and it gives you a chance to voice your opinion and say, this is what I do. You know, whatever the situation is and share with them what your needs are. So it gives you direct access.

03:31:14

So you would say that the, the, the first, the first kind of step to being able to make that change is to start going to these meetings. And, and what, what are these meetings that you’re going to, to be able to, you know, meet with the different, you know, with the, with the, the, the chairman and the, and all these different political figures?

03:31:34

Well, I will have to say right now in Fairfax county, there is a huge thing going on with elections that are coming up in November. So there are new elections going on with the board of supervisors across the county. So there’s a lot of events where these people want to get in front of people. They want to meet as many of the local people that can actually vote for them as they possibly can. So they hold picnics, they hold town meetings, they hold meetings on how to write bills. They hold get together meetings where you’re doing kind of a potluck. They do candidate meetings where they’re doing fundraising and you don’t have to give a lot of money. You can go and give just a little bit of money. And it gives you a chance to talk to your elected officials or somebody that is running for elected official. And so going to those meetings, you have to kind of be in that line, like to follow those. And the thing that I have found the easiest to do is Facebook. And then they also have newsletters. A lot of them actually have newsletters, and they will tell you where they’re going to be. And they’ll tell you about things that they’re going to be talking about. So you can go and actually attend some of those meetings. So, so

03:32:41

Where, where do you, where do you go to find that information? Is it just like a, you look up, you know, a board of board of supervisors or on Google, like how do, how do you get to those people?

03:32:50

Well, so it’s important to understand where your district is. So in Virginia, you can go to where you vote in Virginia. And there’s a, there’s a website that you put in your address. And once you put your address in, it will tell you who your elected officials are down to the local level. And then once you find out what district you’re in, then you can call that supervisor and say, I’d like to get your newsletters. I want to know what’s going on. Why don’t you go to those newsletters? You’ll see where some of those events are. Additionally, if you’re on Facebook, you want to start following those people because when they do stuff that they want the public invited to, they will automatically pop up for you as an event because you’re following that particular person. And then you can say, if you’re interested or you’re going to go,

03:33:33

And then the second thing. So now that we’ve kind of addressed, like, you know, who are these key players and how do you get in front of them starting a group that, that seems like a whole, a whole, another beast in itself. How do you, how do you, how do you start a group? And then how do you get people to actually join your group? You know, Airbnb people, they’re very secretive, very secret squirrel. They don’t want people knowing who they are, where they are. They don’t want to share any of that information. How do you, so how do you get these people to be able to join and then get them engaged, to be able to do these things? That’s a whole nother thing in itself?

03:34:08

Well, so initially I reached out to people through an Airbnb community site. So I found everybody I could find in Northern Virginia, that’s what I did. And I reached out to those people and then I asked them to reach out to other people. So it’s almost like a tree trunk reaching out to a couple of branches. And then each one of the branches reaches out to a new branches until you get down to leaves where we have hundreds of people. And now we’ve got people that are watching us from across the country. And I want them to, because I don’t want anybody to have to go through the struggles that I’ve been going through, not being able to rent my house as I want to. You know, the bottom line is, is that you need to engage people in a way that they understand. You know, you can just tell, and I it’s been so long.

03:34:53

I don’t remember exactly what we said, but I, you know, I basically said I’m another host I host in Northern Virginia. I’m interested in meeting you to talk to you about some upcoming changes that I’m concerned with. I just want to talk to you. I just want to get together for some coffee. Can you meet me on this day here, just come to this meeting, if you can. And then we’ve literally started meeting weekly for months, and then it slowed down to probably by weekly, maybe six months into it. And now it’s down to about monthly, but we’re involved and engaged in so many things. We’re getting down to the point where we need to have people focused on membership and fundraising and our brand and the website development. I mean, we’ve really turned into a full fledged non-profit organization within our group. And we’re very lucky in Northern Virginia. We have all these amazingly tech savvy and just amazing new, talented people. So when you meet people, it’s important to ask them, what do they do? You know, are you a writer? Do you do video protection? Are you, you know, do you blog, do you just do rentals? Are you involved in local community? You want to understand what people’s talents are and then ask them to help you. So, and people are willing to help. This is really important to all of us. People are very willing to help with this.

03:36:13

And so, you know, so, so now that you’ve, you’ve kinda, you’ve got gotten yourself in front of these, these, these, these figures, you kind of built up that group. And one thing I wanted to go back to that group, how do you, how do you find those local community groups ways to be able to find those people that can potentially join?

03:36:35

Well, I will tell you the initial way was to reach out through an Airbnb community and then go out, go out from there, but Airbnb has shut that down. So you really want to find communities that are doing the same thing you’re doing. I have been very blessed and finding Facebook. There are a large number of communities on Facebook and people that are really focused on doing short-term rentals in a number of different ways. So I reached out to probably, I’m probably a member of probably a dozen or so, and then I’ve actually been asked to moderate some other groups as well, because I’m so involved in this and people understand by looking at the responses that I give of what I’m doing. So I would say if you’re not familiar with Facebook, it’s, you know, I know there’s a lot, there’s a lot of controversy with Facebook, but this is a very good way to reach out to other people that are doing the same thing that you are doing.

03:37:27

There are people that are interested in being successful at this, you know, and answering just general questions. Like what are the best tiles to buy, or do you have a rental agreement? What is your rental agreement say? Do you ask people for their IDs, that kind of thing, you know, and when you reach out to those groups, you just get larger. So when we have a big success as an organization, one of the things I’ve done recently is I actually share that information with other people. And one of our members legally had a big success, not that long ago. And I bounced that out to a number of people in our Facebook group really grew.

03:37:59

And I want to go onto that and ask ’em, you know, what, what impact has starting citizens for STR had with the, with the policies, with the changes, because I know that you said that, you know, and I saw it myself, that, that there was recently a, a big kind of like lawsuit that was going to happening between an individual owner. And that was kind of like the first case of someone kind of getting reprimanded when they made this policy change. Can you kind of walk through how that kind of, what that was, and then the, where that is today?

03:38:39

So Fairfax county, at some point in time, decided to say that short-term rentals were illegal and we knew that to not be the case. We knew that to not be true. So in my particular case, a year after I actually started doing short-term rentals, I decided to get a lot more formal with it and put together a rental agreement. I reached out to my lawyer to actually review it. My lawyer specifically said to me, you need to call zoning and find out if Fairfax county is okay with this. So I called Xone. They couldn’t answer my question as to whether or not it was legal. They actually called me back and said, yeah, it’s legal the next day. They said, no, there’s no problem. How many properties do you own in the state of Virginia? If you own less than five properties, you’re not considered a business when you own five properties or more you’re considered a business.

03:39:29

So anyway, they said, yeah, there’s no problem with it. And they told people this up until last year up until the spring of last year, people would call it different times, but they intermittently would tell people, no, it’s not legal. So what happened was Blake and Sarah Radcliffe were, were involved with this years before I was on, on the, the issue of the ordinance at the state level, before I knew about it, before I even knew what was going on, they got up and testified at the state level, and then one of their neighbors complaint and that they were having problems with them. And every time they complained, it was of a racist nature. So Blake and Sarah are white. He is a ex military guy from the Navy amazing family, wonderful family. With four, the only time somebody would call and complain about them, there were somebody of a different color visiting their property.

04:40:32

So what would happen is the neighbors would call and complain and eventually Fairfax county came forward and said, you know, what you’re doing is illegal. And Sarah and Blake fought and they said, no, it’s not illegal. And so it took years, which is not unusual in some of these legal cases for it to come to fruition. And just recently they came back and basically what they said is Fairfax county prior to the ordinance, going to effect did not have a definition for transient occupancy based on the number of days and therefore they’re wrong. So that was it. They lost.

04:41:11

So, so what about for people now, like now that they, you know, because you said that they can, they can change these policies, just like, you know, the so easily, you know, it changes every day. So what about now, like with people that have these houses, you know, maybe they moved and they were depending on this type of, you know, income to be able to support, you know, maybe their retirement or to be able to, you know, just support them financially, how, you know, what, what about the people that are being affected now, just because of this crazy quick change, is, is this something that they could end up going to court for having to pay fines for? Can you fight this? And how does having a, you know, coalition impact that?

04:41:56

Well in Fairfax county there, the laws are different state by state. They are very different state by state, but in Fairfax county, you only have 30 days to fight the actual new ordinance. So when the ordinance went into effect, they voted on it in July of last year. And our members only had 30 days to challenge the ordinance. And basically that’s what they did. So 30 plus members in our group actually went forward and legally challenged Fairfax county saying that they were taken were rights and they really are. They are taking away our rights to be able to rent out our properties the way they want to. So are when people send funding for us and they actually go onto our GoFundMe site and they donate to our cause what they are doing is they are donating to our legal battle and that legal battle, 90 plus percent of that money, it’s a very, very high, high, high percentage go specifically to fund our lawsuit.

04:42:56

And that lawsuit, the advantage of everybody helping in Fairfax county is that Fairfax county is really looked to as a leader in this nation. So when it comes to how they handle properties, what they do with the land, you know, where the wealthiest tech companies come, they’re coming to Fairfax county. So what happens here, we’ll roll out to the rest of the country and be looked at by the rest of the country. So it’s really important that we support this lawsuit as much as we financially can. And people really have stepped up to the plate, but it is a significant battle and there’s a significant need. So if you can, I’d ask you to go, please donate if you can.

04:43:37

So with, you know, so this, this lawsuit that happened, did this come after this, you know, once you decided to dispute this new policy change that a lawsuit began.

04:43:49

Yeah. Yeah. So they got together. We had 30 days to actually file against the actual ordinance itself. And that’s what happened. You can’t join the lawsuit now. You can’t really do it. You can, I guess, you know, you, and when it comes down to it, Julia, you can Sue anybody. But in order to, to meet protocol in this particular area, you only have 30 days to do it. And that’s what’s happened. So nobody new can join this particular lawsuit, but that doesn’t mean you can’t, anybody can Sue, but I don’t think your chances are you would win because of not the right protocol

04:44:26

Now. So, so you, you got in front of the right people, you’re trying to get the right people into that position. Next, you, you, you reach out to the community, you try to build a, you know, a group trying to get like-minded individuals who are, you know, in that maybe particular area or support that particular area and are trying to prevent something from happening. And the next is if a policy does change, you, you have, depending on the state that you live in, you have a certain amount of time to be able to dispute that. And then it becomes a lawsuit. And how, what, what, what explain like what, what the lawsuit is and like how you can, like, what, what will be the impact of that following that lawsuit?

04:45:10

Well, the lawsuit really covers so many details of what are written into the ordinance that it would take us probably an hour to go through every single detail that’s associated with it. But you know, a couple of things that I talked about before the unwarranted searches and seizures, the privacy issues, the total amount of tax that’s being taken out, how it’s being, you know, the zoning is being changed from basically from residential to commercial. You’re being treated as a hotel now, rather than as an individual, there are mandates as to the number of people that can actually stay on your property. And there are federal mandates for the number of people that can actually stay in a room. So HUD actually looks at how many people and what size can stay in a room, how much air do they need to breathe? And then there are laws with regard to families. So I have large houses and those mandates are based on the number of people that can actually stay in a property. So you can’t come back and go, oh, you can only have six adults and make no mention of children because that basically just wades from families. And that may not have been their intention, but that’s what they actually said in the law. So you have to be very specific and you have to work through it, line item by line item, and that’s what the lawsuit is doing.

04:46:33

So the, the lawsuit you disputing this, isn’t going to say, you know, we want short, you know, we want anybody to be able to Short Term rent, you know, similar to, let’s say, Alexandria county. We want the same conditions. You know, in Fairfax, this is more like nitpicking the different areas, trying to get clarity on things that are vague. So after the lawsuit ends, is it still going to be as strict, just maybe with a little bit better clarification on specific items?

04:47:04

Well, I will tell you, we have passed along the information from Alexandria city and their staff and what their results have been. And they’ve been incredibly successful. They’ve gotten three times the amount of tax income that they thought they were going to. They’ve had very few or no complaints at all. They’ve been very, very successful. And so we have said over and over again, this is what we want you to do. This is what we want you to do, but there’s, so I think there’s so much backlight pressure and that we’re not seeing from other donors and developers in Fairfax county, they’re giving money to Fairfax county. That there’s a lot more support for the developers and the residents who have lived there for, in some cases like me decades and have been paying taxes for decades. We are seriously being ignored. So part of what happened, and that’s the reason that we went to the state level because we bypass Fairfax county and we went directly to Richmond and we had a Senator that worked together with us to actually Senator avid, Adam, Evan worked together with us to actually put together a bill, bill 1701.

04:48:11

And we brought it forward. It was argued down in the state of Virginia, in Richmond, at the house in the Senate. And they want, so it got held up in local committees, but sometimes if it doesn’t happen at the local level, you got to take it to the state level. You’ve got to pay, pass it and take it higher. And we’re already working with another Senator right now on doing a statewide bill. So it’s not that Christmas tree thing where it pops up in every different city, county and state. And there have been a couple of states that have been successful with this. Arizona is one of them where they actually have a statewide bill, California right now is fighting for statewide billing rather than individual city.

04:48:50

So, so, you know, I think, you know, there’s, there’s so much, you know, this is such a good topic and I’m sure that we could, you know, I’d love to be able to have you on to maybe talk more about this. But the last thing, you know, I just kind of want to go over the steps for people that are interested in starting a, their own coalition in, you know, their specific area. So, you know, so we’ve covered, we’ve covered the, the, you know, who, who you need to get in front of, we’ve covered how you grow that community. We’ve also covered, you know, what, what happens like when a policy does change? I think maybe the last thing is that if it doesn’t work at your local, at your local county level, then you’re saying you can just kind of skip that and go to the state level.

04:49:34

And then the state can actually be the one that passes a bill that says, Hey, you know, everybody, what, what everybody’s doing, you know, let’s just make this a straight a cloth across the board. So if the state says it’s it’s it’s okay. Does that mean that the local counties aren’t allowed to have different policies? Because I know that with like cities, like, you know, like an HOA can have different regulations than a, you know, then maybe Alexandria, Alexandria can say it’s okay, but in the HOA, the HOA can say, well, no, it’s not okay for us. Is that the same for like a state kind of state say it’s okay, but then a local county say it’s not okay.

05:50:18

No. So the way that it works is if you, if the statewide mandate comes in, if the bill original bill had been written and said, register and collect tot tax and that’s it, and they gave the local cities, counties and towns, no option, they would have had to have done that. They would have absolutely had to have just registered people and collected tot tax. But that’s not what happened, what ended up happiness. And they said they may change the ordinance. So because they put in that qualifier, the individual cities, counties, and towns have the ability to do that. So at the state level, when the state makes a decision, it’s a, it’s a mandate and everybody in the state has to do whatever it is. That’s being said.

05:51:02

There is the caveat with that, that you’re bringing up and that’s the HOA. So if you buy into a building with a condominium or you buy into a neighborhood that has an HOA ordinance, those, those ordinances where you get that book thick, full of stuff that you’re signing off on, when you buy that property, they can mandate mandate how high the grass is in your neighborhood. How often do you cut it? What color are your, the paint? What’s the paint color throughout the neighborhood. They can mandate stuff about the trim. They can mandate whether or not it’s historical. They can also mandate about short-term rentals and they can change those mandates at any particular point in time to say that they accept that, or they don’t accept that. And in the state of Virginia, there was one particular case that was fought at the Supreme court in the state of Virginia called Scott vs Walker.

05:51:56

And somebody bought a property specifically to make it a Vacation Rental. Then the HOA came in and decided to change the HLA code and say, oh, well, you can’t, you can’t do a Vacation Rental in this particular area. And it went back and forth and back and forth like these things do. And the state Supreme court came back and said, no, they bought, they bought specifically to make it a Vacation Rental. They bought it specifically for residential use. And what, whether you changed the HOA or not their grandfather did. So there’s kind of a fine line with those hos. It is kind of a caveat and it’s, it’s a one-off, but if you buy into an area that has an HOA, the rules can be different. So you have to be careful if you do that. Very careful.

05:52:45

So, so, so you’re kind of saying, cause a lot of people say, just avoid hos, but you know, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re a fighter Trisha, you, you you’re, you’re just fighting, fighting all the time. You know, I, I, I I’d get really tired out and I’d just kind of maybe throw my hands up and say, you know, onto the next county onto the next state, that is more short term rental friendly. So are you saying that it’s, it’s actually a, a positive thing to maybe fight your HOA or to fight your county or to even fight the state? Is, is that something that is possible for just like everyday people like, like you and me,

05:53:23

It absolutely is possible everyday people. Although I will have to tell you from my education in his last year, because I have learned from the ground up, I really have learned all this from the ground up. I knew none of this stuff before I was not involved in any kind of politics. I did not go out and meet the board of supervisors. I did not knock on any doors. I didn’t meet senators or any of that stuff you can learn to do all this. You’re already a host. You meet people all the time. You’re an outgoing person. You obviously have the personality to reach out to people you can continue to do that. Just don’t be shy. And I really believe that a biggest part of our strength is our ability to build those relationships. And we’re really good at it. We’re really, really good at it. 

05:54:06

I have the same cleaning lady that I’ve had for years. I have same handyman that I’ve had for years. If I have problems, I know where the electrician or the plumber or the landscaper is that I can call and I can rely on just show up in 24 hours and do whatever I need them to. This is no different. And it’s amazing when you get to know these people, they’re not really different than you or I, but they’re working on a much bigger playing field than you and I are. They’re trying to take care of everyone and that’s sincerely what I’m trying to do. I’m trying to make sure that everybody that’s out there that owns a property. However, you got that property that you can bring to it whenever you need to. If you get furloughed, if you’re traveling in your military, if you’re on a, short-term stay somewhere.

05:54:49

If you’re driving through town because you’re transferred from one station to another and you needed a place to stay overnight with your dog, that there’s a place you can actually go to. I want everybody to be able to get that income that they need to, for whatever reason that they want to get it. And I think that’s our right. I really think that’s our right. So I wouldn’t say fight anymore. I would’ve said that last year, I would say it is more about collaboration. It really is more about collaboration and partnership with the place that you live and finding those ways to partner are far more effective and fighting through. We want to partner and get a seat at the table. That’s the critical thing. Okay.

05:55:32

Well, I, I, I think that that’s a beautiful way to, to wrap up this, this episode, Tricia, I, you know, th this has just been really riveting. You’ve, you’ve, you’ve continue every time that I talked to you, it’s just like continuing to just kind of like blow my mind with what’s happening and just the amount of impact that, you know, just, you know, like you said, you last year, you know, just a little over a year ago, you had no clue about, you know, the political landscape and now you’re, you’re getting in there. You’re, you’re talking with senators, you’re talking with your, your, your, you know, congressmen and your, your, your board of supervisors. You’re really making an impact. And hopefully, you know, th this, this episode, the show can highlight some of the, the, the ways that people can be able to start their own coalitions, to be able to reach out to the senators, to be able to make that change.

05:56:22

Because really it is, it is very specific to the, the county, the county and the people that are pushing that, that agenda their agenda. Because, you know, you just, you look at Virginia and here’s Alexandria county, you know, here’s Alexandria, and then there’s Fairfax right there. They’re literally just touching each other, literally touching each other. So you can’t say, you know, you can’t say that this, this, you know, that the people here are doing, you know, something legal, and then the people here are doing something illegal, you know, because it’s, it’s just ridiculous. But I just, I just want to thank you so much. I’m sure that will, you know, as more questions and more people in the groups are asking these questions, I’ll be collecting them and try to get you on another show, because you’re our, you’re our, our go-to person for those, those short-term rental regulations.

05:57:14

And again, everybody go to citizens for STR that’s citizens, the number four S STR r.org. And you can reach out to Trisha she’s in the Facebook groups. She’s in probably in all the Facebook groups, but got to go to short term rental success secrets. We’ll be sharing this episode. There, you can go to the YouTube, reach out to Trisha. She’s very open, very open to educating, helping people that are interested in either working, you know, to support Fairfax county or to be able to start their own their own coalitions, to be able to make those changes. Because, you know, like, like Trisha was saying, what happens in the state level really kind of affects the different areas and what other people are seeing, you know, that, that they, they kind of want to see that, that positive, because like lake Trisha said, it’s bringing in a lot of income and the people that are not looking at that income it’s because they have other agendas, you know, such as, you know, trying to, you know, prevent short-term rentals and, and more supporting the hotel industry. But with all that being said, thank you so much, Patricia. It is such an honor. And until next time, host nation keep on hosting, hope he hosts benefit from the show. If you found value, please go on over to iTunes, leave us a review and let us know what you enjoy about the show. If you’d like to talk to hosts that have been featured in these episodes, as well as the community, going over to our Facebook group, the host nation, talk to your hosts in the next step. So to keep on hosting.