Today I had the honor of speaking with Tyann Marcink. Tyann is a powerhouse in the vacation rental community as she manages 10 properties, runs a photography business focused primarily on maximizing earnings with vacation rentals, is a community ambassador for Touchstay, cofounded the VR Mastered Bootcamp, and is a frequent speaker at VR events, educating the audience on marketing and photography tips.
Tyann shares her experience of over 13 years in the industry as well as super actionable tips on how you can increase your Short Term Rentals conversions by taking better photos.
Video Transcript
00:00:00
The goal of the Vacation Rental photos is some to get someone to look at the photos, imagine themselves in the photos, then spend the money to go there. And lastly, step into the space and be like, wow, this is exactly like the photo.
00:00:17
This is episode number two, one of short term rental success stories, podcast. Welcome back to short term rental success stories. I’m your host, Julian Sage. This is a show where I talk to hosts about their journeys and starting and growing the short-term rental business. My goal is that you’ll be able to walk away with practical information. That’ll help you become a better host and learn how to scale your business. Like any exceptional hosts. We all strive for five star reviews. So please go on over to iTunes and let us know what you enjoy as it really helps support the show. If you haven’t done so already going over to a Facebook group, the host nation to connect with the community and other professional hosts that have been featured on the show. Hey, host nation. I wanted to apologize that this episode as the audio on my side, it’s not going to sound that good.
00:00:57
I accidentally deleted my podcast audio. So it sounds a little bit funky coming through my webcam microphone. So I’m sorry for that. I need to slow down and not do control a than delete before I put the files in the appropriate spots. So lesson learned, I am sorry for this episode, please bear with me. Did I have the honor of speaking with Tai and Marcy tie-in is a powerhouse in the Vacation Rental community. She manages 10 properties runs a photography business focused primarily on maximizing earnings with vacation rentals is a community ambassador for touch stay. Co-founded the VR mastered bootcamp and is a frequent speaker at Vacation Rental events, educating audiences on marketing and photography tips in this conversation. Tyne shares her experience of over 13 years in the industry, as well as super actionable tips on how you can increase your short-term rental conversions and increase your profit by taking better photos. If you’d like my show notes for this episode, go to Short Term Sage dot com backslash STR two one, or if you’d like my show notes sent directly to your inbox every week, then go to Short Term Sage dot com backslash show notes with all that being said onto this week’s conversation. Welcome back to us that I have the special honor of speaking with Diane. Maurice. Thanks, Diane. Would you please let the audience know a little bit more about who you are and what inspired you to get in Short?
00:02:21
Thanks so much for having me on the podcast. I am honored. I very much. Thank you. So what started was my parents began, so I guess they’re going, I’m going on 13 years in the industry now. So they must, I guess they’ve just right at 15 years. And they decided to sell all of their long-term rentals and commercial properties and invested in the largest homes available in Branson, Missouri, which at that time was only four and five bedrooms, which 15 years ago, everybody thought they were crazy. And now everybody’s like what? Only four, five bedrooms. That’s it. So I saw that they were doing really well and was ready to diversify my investments and built the first place canyon retreat. So it’s been 13 years now since I put it up on the verbal listing and got it set up in November that morning we walked out and about two hours later, our first guest arrived.
00:03:22
Yeah,
00:03:24
You have, you have 13, 13 years. So I mean, you are, you are, oh gee, and the space, but you also are very heavily involved in the short-term rental community. Do you mind sharing some of the stuff that you have going on? I know that before we were recording, you gave a long list of some of the stuff that you have going on, like side businesses and stuff like that. So if you wouldn’t mind just kind of give it a quick rundown of like the impact that you’re doing in the short-term rental community and then some of the other side projects, because I think that that’s pretty interesting to your story since, you know, you’re managing 10 properties or you’re coming up on 10, but you also have a lot of other stuff going on. So if you wouldn’t mind kind of giving a rundown.
00:04:07
Sure. So back, you know, when I first started, that was when we only took checks. You know, you could only reserve a Vacation Rental by sending a check in the mail. And I quickly realized that for someone to send me a check for thousands of dollars, six to nine months in advance, never seen the property except photos on a website is really honestly the perfect scheme for a scam. And I was like, okay, how do I lift the trust level of, for people to send me the money? So I immediately figured out it’s the pictures taught myself, you know, photography went on and then decided a few years later, Hey, I want to be the go-to person for Vacation Rental photography. I want to be the go-to person in the industry. So I wrote some eBooks. I talked to HomeAway and started speaking at the HomeAway summits on Vacation Rental photography, and then ended up speaking at other events like the Vacation Rental success, summit Varma, and other ones, Vacation Rental world summit, and spoke on Vacation, Rental, photography, and marketing. And then it just expanded to where my friends and I Ilana Schroeder, the distinguished guests. We began the VR master Vacation Rental bootcamp a couple of years ago and started doing an intense five day training on marketing best practices and work flow for hosts and managers. And then for a short time for well, three years, I was also a consultant with HomeAway on their hospitality app. And then after that, a touch day brought me on board as their community ambassador.
00:05:44
Wow. You, you have quite quite a history. I don’t think we’ve had anybody on the show that has such a like rich, like just how much you’re involved in the community and what you have going on working with, being part of these Vacation, Rental, masterminds and events. I think that is just so cool. What, what do you think is like the biggest out of all the things that you’ve been to? I know this is probably gonna be hard, but like what, what do you think is the biggest, like key thing that you’ve kind of taken away from this?
00:06:15
Oh gosh. So the, the biggest thing, especially with the events is getting to know people, meeting people in the industry. It is, it is huge. I mean, people think, oh my gosh, I don’t want to spend a thousand dollars. I don’t want to spend $3,000. I don’t want to go to an event and invest in that. Look, you know what, just the energy you get from meeting your tribe is incredible. So there there’s some events that are better than other events, but honestly all of them, if you just get away from the wall and take a step out and meet people, it’s incredible finding your tribe because at home there’s just not a lot of hosts owners, managers, you know, they don’t understand what you’re going through. So once you can connect and it’s different face to face versus online, cause yeah, we got the social media, we got the groups on Facebook, things like that. That’s completely different. It’s that face to face with another human that understands what you’re going through. That is incredible.
00:07:13
Yeah. I, I, you know, I, I saw like, there’s lots of people, like even like one of the, one of the like Richard fair to it’s starting another type of meetup group or, or event, he’s an, I’m just curious, like, so what, what is really the big difference from people that are going to be going to an event that they couldn’t maybe take away from like maybe these online groups? Like why, why go to an event what’s going to be really different?
00:07:40
Sure. So any event, like I said is face-to-face, it’s not pictures. It’s not video it’s, you’re not, you know, there’s something about being in the same room with the person sitting across the table from a person sitting next to them then and getting in that group and just, and you feel the energy of the people and you can see their expressions and you can have a conversation. It’s not like a zoom meeting and it’s just so different. And that’s one of the things with Vacation Rental bootcamp that we do, this is our fourth one coming up this fall. And we have, I think it’s 11 or 12 alum coming back that has, it’s either the second time, third time. And Kathy has been to every single bootcamp since we started. And she goes, you know, it’s a family reunion is what it is because you get to know the people and you find support, you found your tribe and you connect with people.
00:08:42
The good thing about all the different types of events and the different types of mentors and the teachers and the people putting on these different events is all of these people also have a different personality and a different teaching method. So when you’re looking for an event to go, make sure you connect with whoever’s organizing it and putting it on that your personalities gel their team, their teaching method is the way you like to learn to it. It just makes a world of difference because whatever remind people is, if we were all the same, when it life just be so boring, you know, we’re all different. So find what gels best with you.
00:09:20
I love, I love that. That’s a really, really helpful advice. One when looking, because there’s there’s, there, there there’s a growing amount of events going out there and it’s maybe like, oh, which event should I go to? But I like, I really liked what you said about, you want to find the, you know, the hosts that will be at those events that really resonate and speak with you. That way you can, you can take away and just leave out of networking and being face-to-face. I think that is so cool. You, you mentioned you have quite an interesting backstory with building banks with volts. Do you mind kind of talking about that and how that has influenced your, your building of your, your short-term rentals?
00:09:56
Yeah. So about two years ago, I realized that I was ready to add on another property. And I started looking around for a property and I wanted to be more of my home base. So I’m about an hour west of St. Louis over her Missouri wine country. And I started looking around and Hmm. You know, I want something unique and it’s when I walk into the place, I’ve got to say, this is it. Otherwise it doesn’t work. And generally, I like to build a place that’s my personal preference. So I’ve, I’ve built several I’ve rehabbed, several and a friend of mine. She said, Hey, there’s this full 1900 bank building that used to be a dentist office that is now for sale has been for sale for almost a year. Now, why don’t you go take a look at it? So I thought, okay, that’s cool.
01:10:44
And then I looked at the location. I said, oh my gosh, it is this little tiny town rights on the Katy trail. And the Katy trail is the largest rails to trails project in the United States. So it’s 237 miles of a bike trail. So there’s starting to look at the stats. It’s like, okay, there’s 90,000 people that come through every summer. And then I look at how many beds are available and the location of this. I was like, okay, this little town of Martha Ceville has exact location for your, either your first night of the trip after you’ve left the going from east to west, also the good location for your last night, if you’re going from the west side of the state to the side of the state. So I thought, okay, this is cool. I I’ve always loved the Katy trail since I was a little girl and writing that, I thought, oh, it’d be so cool to live right here on the Katy trail.
01:11:34
And so when I saw the property was there, I thought, okay, that’s cool. It’s an historic building. It’s an a location. That’s awesome. It’s not a huge price. But the problem with the price is because it’s a reflection of the area. The area was flooded in 1993, when we had the massive flooding of the Missouri and Mississippi and it’s in the downtown area. And so it’s a very, it’s also a very depressed area and looking at it, I thought, you know what, why not invest in the community by rehabbing this place and trying to bring visitors to it? Cause that’s one of the things I like to do is I, I invest in people and I thought, okay, here’s a community that I can invest in. So I looked at it, I walked in and it hit me. I’m like this, this, you know, am I realtors looking at me?
01:12:25
Like, what are you talking about? Like this, this is the perfect property. And she looks at me like, okay, you’re going to have to explain a little more what you’re thinking, because this does not look like what you’re wanting. Like, no, no, no, this is perfect. So the next step was then to find a contractor that saw my vision as well. And I knew I’d pay a little more for that. And I’m happy to do that when it’s excellent work. And I found someone who understood my vision and was right on, you know, gave me my estimates and did the property and loved walking out into the building. And they say, Hey boss, how’s it going? You know, Hey boss, we got a question so that it was really awesome, you know, looking through and figuring out which walls to tear down, because like I said, it was with dentist office. So it was a lot of pipes to take out from underneath, from all the different sinks and things like that. But the end of the project is just phenomenal,
01:13:24
You know, that’s that, that, that is a lot of work. And you know, what, what are you doing when you’re looking at a property? Because you said it was in a depressed area, maybe there’s hosts out there that they, you know, that they’re familiar with their area, but maybe there’s just an area that maybe there’s not like a whole lot of visitors or maybe it’s just not in an area that people could imagine. Maybe they could imagine it, but there’s just nobody there right now. So it, how, what, what are you doing when you’re analyzing an area to really make sure that the investment that you’re putting into that community is able to pay for pay for itself?
01:14:03
Yeah, sure. So when I look at the area, I look beyond the immediate area. So here in Missouri, all our small towns are tied together. So I’m looking actually several miles across the river, over in Washington, Missouri, which does bring in a lot of tourism, but Martha’s Ville, even though it’s a ton of 1100 people, it looks pretty rundown. And I’ve had comments from guests too. And they say, we arrived at night. It felt a little sketchy at first. But once the sun rose in the morning, we realized that it’s an amazing little farming community. And when I started my project too, there were many residents, you know, farther away from the main area where I was at the downtown area and other people in area. They, so why who’s going to come to little old Martha’s Val and you know, that’s when I kept telling them, okay, we’ve got the Katy trail, you have 90,000 people riding by on a bicycle every summer.
01:15:06
You know, it’s, you’re not just this awesome sleepy little town. You do have people coming through and guess what? They’re from all over the world, not just from 10 miles away, you know, these are people from all over the world who make it a bucket trip list to come through here. So why not show hospitality to them? We’ve got, there was there’s two great restaurants within walking distance. So you have Philly’s pizza, the best pizza in the county, and that’s literally two doors away. So they get to know us very well. And almost every review mentioned them as well. You know, we weren’t, we stayed at the bank house and we had pizza and it was awesome. And then, you know, you’ve got Corey’s twin Gables that has live music and specials almost every single night. And they cater to the bicyclist and the motorcyclist.
01:15:54
And you know, when you get into a small town community and you’re supporting them the chamber of commerce, you know, they’re very, very supportive sharing events and things like that. And talking about my place, it’s not like a big city, there’s not so much suspicion. And the one thing I am, I try to just be as transparent as possible with the community as well and let them know what my plans are to let them know I’m here to support them. And if there’s any issues, you know, here’s my contact information. You know, it’s very easy to find me. There’s a residential home next door. So I talked to them and made sure they knew that I had the noise aware noise sensor inside the bank too, because it’s a cool space. And I want to attract larger groups. You know, it’s four bedrooms sleeps, 12 people, handicapped, wheelchair assessable.
01:16:44
The other thing I was looking for in the area is wedding venues. We’re a community that when you hold a wedding, you’re looking at at least two to 300 people to attend. And that’s a small wedding. You know, we it’s families here are not just one or two kids. You’re talking three to five kids to seven kids. And then you’ve got the aunts and uncles and cousins and, you know, putting together my reception lists, you know, it was already 70 people was just family on my side that doesn’t include my husband’s side or our friends or church, family, or anything like that. So there’s not enough lodging for when there’s weddings. So looking at whatever wedding venues are around and we have one just two miles down the road. And so we’ve formed a partnership with them. It’s actually where we ended up having our wedding reception as well and building those relationships.
01:17:40
You know, I just think that that is so cool that you have been very heavily invested in the community. I think where people are kind of going now at kind of the picture that I’ve kind of been seeing is that people are very afraid of letting other people know about their short term rental ventures, because they’re afraid that maybe the, you know, that county is just going to come down on them and say, Hey, you’re not allowed to do this or that their neighbors are going to say, we don’t like what you’re doing. So there’s a lot of fear involved in that. What, you know, what, what is the, the benefit would you say the biggest benefits of getting the community and the, you know, even, even the county involved
01:18:21
For sure. The first thing is always, always check regulations and ordinances first before doing anything else. That way, you know, you are in the clear that what you can do is within the rules. And if they have any permit processes, you know, find out about them, proceed with them. My first one that I did in a residential area was actually a little two bedroom house. That was a long-term rental. Then I found out the tenants were dealing drugs like Newnan and immediately got them kicked out. Missouri has great rules for when there’s illegal activities and it’s within days, you’d have them out in as much money as I had to put into it to just make it livable again. I thought, Hey, let’s throw a couple thousand dollars of furnishings in there and see what happens. It’s our little towns very first and only vacation rental, short term rental.
01:19:19
See what happens, you know, talk to the city. And they’re like, yeah, you know, there’s nothing on the books, go for it. And I said, okay, business licenses, things like that. So they told me what to do. Then I held an open house to me, that’s a big thing. I invited all the neighbors. I invited the city, I invited local businesses. I said, Hey, come to my open house, see what the is like. And in doing so pickets, the neighbors and communities, knowing what’s going on, they have my contact information. And then I let them know, Hey, when you have family come into town, we know you have big families. You don’t have large spaces at home. Here’s the extra space. So for instance, that Christmas, I hosted someone’s family that came over from New Zealand and their family lived two blocks away. And they were so appreciative to be able to stay in a place that was one, a home and two, so close to where their family was.
02:20:13
So it worked out really well to so that the families could have their own spaces. So, you know, being completely transparent, open inviting the community and the city in, it was just wonderful to have the C city administrator actually come to the open house, walk through the house and say, Hey, we will support you. Just let us know what we can do to help. And then even last night, you know, somebody goes on Facebook and says, Hey, we have family coming into town for these dates, anybody know of anything. And then I get all these tags. Hey, tie-ins caught something. Hey, yeah, here’s, tie-ins, here’s our places. You know, it it’s really such a benefit to make sure you’re on the up and up. Don’t try to slide under the radar. You know, it’s not worth it at all.
02:20:57
Yeah. I just think that that is so cool. The, the amount of transparency that, that you have of had, has just come back in turn fold. You’ve just been receiving so much generosity from the community and from other people’s, you know, I think that a lot of operators are getting into this space and they’re just trying to slide their, their rentals in there. And then that’s creating they’re there, they’re afraid, but then everybody else recognizes that they’re also hiding something that they’re afraid as well, which makes maybe the, the county and the administrators, the council members also suspicious of what they’re doing. And I’m sure that they’re not doing it with no intent, but it’s just the place that they’re coming from having to keep this to themselves that it’s like now they’re going to look at that as being like a suspicious thing that is going to be causing all these issues and not increasing the amount of community involvement or not bettering the neighborhood. I just think that that is so cool, but what a lot of people that are just maybe starting off, they’re getting up to like Airbnb, they’re getting out to a, of these OTAs and not doing it like, like a bed and breakfast or anything. When you listen to your property and got the county involved where you like setting up like this business structure and putting it on Google maps, or was there more involved to it or were you just putting it on an OTA online travel?
02:22:19
Right. In the beginning, I started with my own website booking direct as well. There’s all these different steps and no one should feel lowly or less than if they don’t have booked direct right away. Or if they don’t have Google my business right away, you know, there’s so many steps. You, you have to start slow. You it’s, you’re going to go crazy. You know, and that’s one of the things we do talk about and Vacation Rental bootcamp is you start out with a good foundation and take the steps only as fast as you are able to. And the way you walk is not going to be the same way that I walk. It’s not going to be the same way as somebody else on Facebook walks. You know, some of them might look at my success and be like, oh my gosh, people are contacting her and giving her properties to manage left and right, what’s going on.
02:23:07
She’s doing a crazy, you know, like I’ve been doing this for 13 years and I’ve built my reputation for so long. You know, I’ve been speaking at conferences and industry events for six years, you know, it’s a very long road and the short-term rental space, you know, you’ll see a lot of things pop up, Hey, make money overnight. Hey, you know, this is a quick rich thing. You can lay on the beach all day. And just the Airbnb chimes going to go off with all this deposits. No, it’s a lot of work and it’s a lot more work than a long-term rental as well. I mean, I’ve, I’ve been a landlord. I hate it. I hate it. You know, I sold my last longterm rental property. I was so happy, you know, and put that money towards the lots that I’m building a 10 bedroom house on. And I want to talk to the people that want to pay me, you know, 1600 a night instead of $600 a month. You know, I want to talk to those people, but it’s a lot more work. It’s a lot more investment, high risk, high reward, high time input. But again, high reward. It’s just a lot of time. It’s not easy.
02:24:18
I wanted to hit you. You’ve been in the space for, for quite a while. And you have just a wealth of knowledge. One of the, one of the myths that you kind of are saying is, is, is, is a myth, is you have a low, lower occupancy being 55%. But what you also said is that the bottom line matters more. So can you kind of break this myth of that? You need to have an 80, 90, a hundred percent occupancy. Otherwise you’re not a good operation.
02:24:44
Oh my gosh. Yeah. So my H my occupancy in Branson is 55% people. It’s not possible, not even remotely possible to be 90, to a hundred percent, unless you’re literally giving away the nights. So every location has different occupancy numbers. I was recently in Orlando for business and, you know, shooting a vacation rental property. And I thought, Hey, let’s just look at the returns because everyone says, Orlando, Orlando, Orlando’s number one place to invest. Well, I’m looking at this and I’m running the numbers. And just because you have 90% occupancy in Orlando does not mean you’re going to have a better net at the end of the day. You know, and when you’re looking at 90%, they’re only putting their rate at 250 to $300 a night for a large six, seven bedroom home with private pool and spa. So yeah, they’re, they’re getting it, but their net numbers are no better than my Branson numbers at.
02:25:46
Okay. If I compare a five bedroom house at 55% occupancy, you know, in the summer, I’m getting $3,400 a week. I can’t even give away nights at $150 a night during the winter season. You know, so, and I know people in Michigan, it’s like, you just shut your house down during the off season, because simply nobody comes and it costs more to run the utilities than anything. So you gotta look at that bottom number. And then the other part to look at is if you have high occupancy, you’re also going to have more wear and tear on your property. So that means more expenses replacing your linens, replacing your towels, replacing a broken chair, consumables. All of that adds up. So in my mind is I’d rather have the lower occupancy at the higher rates, because then people take better care of my place. So I have less expenses going out. And then my bottom number is better.
02:26:43
One of the, one of the big things that you said that I really want people to, to hear again. And I’d like for you to maybe talk a little bit more about is that you said that there’s like hot destinations right now, like Orlando, Miami, and everybody’s touting like, oh, this is the place that you need to go. Everybody’s traveling here. I have a hundred percent, blah, blah, blah. But you’re saying that there’s places where like, there’s only like 11,000 people that live there, that you’re, you’re actually doing better in those smaller locations. Then maybe these more, you know, these, these hot locations, what it does is that just like across the board, or like, how, how do you know that, that a lower, maybe a lower occupancy and a not as maybe heavily visited area will actually kind of do better than the locations that have a lot of people operating in it.
02:27:33
You really have to dig into the numbers and talk to the people that are in that area. You know, my go-to would be Vrolio I’m with Erica Mueller, Vrolio dot com. Look at her data and see what she has. She’s putting out there. I know soon she’s going to be releasing their top three places to invest in the United States. And I’ll let her release that in focus. I don’t want to leak it, but it can tell you, you got to dig deep, deep into the numbers and really talk to the people on, on the ground there, you know, to talk to the managers. Don’t, don’t just look at scraped information across the board from these different companies. I know there’s a few out there that say, Hey, we’ve got all the statistics. We’ll guess what? You don’t know when owners and managers block something for maintenance, all you see is blocked dates.
02:28:25
You don’t know that they’re booked or not. You don’t know the rate that they’re booked. So there’s a lot of data that you can get just by talking to the local people and talk to the groups of people. There’s more and more host groups that are forming. And I think those are so, so valuable because then you can trade information as far as, okay, when’s our high season. When’s our low season, Hey, there’s an event coming up. You know, I try to be involved with the St. Louis hosts and really encourage and support them. And I saw, you know, gymnastics Olympic trials are coming to St. Louis. And as soon as that was released, I’m like, Hey guys, you know, here’s check this out. You know, make sure your rights are secured a little bit higher for that time. Even though it’s two years off, you want to make sure you get that little bit of extra, you know, and, and really support each other. So when you’re looking at a destination, you, yeah, you’ve got your realtor, but your realtor might not know the Vacation Rental industry like mine here at home. She’s learning the Vacation Rental industry and talk to look at Vrolio and look at their map. And you know, then regulation’s huge thing don’t even go any further after you think your numbers will work out, then check regulations over and over. I mean, double, triple check them because they’re also always, always changing.
02:29:45
Now, you, you, you, you, you’ve got this, this media company that does with vacation rentals. What, what type of advice would you give to people that they are listing their property and they need, they want to get these like beautiful photos, or w w where do you start when it comes to a photography? Like you’re, you’re the photography expert in this space. So if you wouldn’t mind just imparting some wisdom on people that are listing their properties, what are some of the do’s? And don’t say, oh, we should be doing
03:30:16
So, the first thing you want to do is actually get my free ebook, Tim sync.com/ebooks, get the free one. First, that is your 10 tips to get your house ready, because the importance, as they say, the devil is in the details. And it really points out what details to be aware of. The other thing is, is number one, you always want to get professional photos. However, you’re not always in a position to do that right off. And that is okay. That is okay. You know, I, I want to make sure hosts know don’t stress out that you can’t go hire a professional right away. It’s okay. So what you need to do is just be aware of how you are taking your photos first, because there’s a lot of moving pieces to getting photos. You know, you’ve got to have an open time, you’ve got to have your time to go do it, or to hire somebody at the end, you’ve got to work on their schedule.
03:31:09
And then the lighting and the, oh my gosh, there’s so many different things. So it’s perfectly fine to start off on your own, you know, look at the details of it. If you want to go a step further, I’ve got another ebook that tells you in detail, how to go a step further on yourself. But the important thing is to remember whatever camera you do use, the most important part of that camera is the 12 inches behind it. That’s you? I mean, I can do better photos with my iPhone, then other people can do with a professional DSLR if they don’t know how to use the camera.
03:31:46
So what about, what about like, people are getting into this space and maybe they don’t have like this beautiful Vacation Rental. They don’t, they don’t, maybe they’re just listing a room or maybe there, they don’t have the money to be able to, you know, get those nice white laminate cabinets with the granite countertop. They’re just kind of renting a space that isn’t the most attractive. Well, how, how can, how can people take photos that really kind of make the place a more welcoming or accepting, or do you have to do a complete renovation and get this beautiful space in order to be able to be in the space,
03:32:30
Clean your place? At first, I I’ve had, I’ve had folks contact me and they say, okay, we want to hire you for photos. And I’m like, okay, send me your link. Let me look. And I’m like, okay, honestly, your investment in me taking your photos is not going to help anything. You need to invest your money first in your property. One, it’s gotta be clean. It’s got to be clean, no mold, any showing anywhere. You’ve got to get rid of it. You know, if you’ve got holes in the wall, if you’ve cut cleaning supplies, strong out, if you’ve got clutter everywhere, it’s not going to help at all. If you’ve got grandma’s dingy recliner that grandpa sat in for 30 years, yes. It’s sentimental to you. Yes. It might still feel comfortable to you, but get rid of it, get rid of it. You know, you can go on Craigslist or Facebook marketplace and get something for somebody moving that is a lot better shape.
03:33:27
Okay. So yes, sometimes you do have to freshen up your space better, and then there’s a fine line between being minimal and it being so much clutter, so much clutter, you know, less is more for sure, but don’t go so sparse that it no longer feels welcome. Either my go-to mentors for that would be Allana Schroeder with the distinguished guests and then Megan McCray with the hospitality creator. And both of them have put out lots and lots of articles and information, and they have services to, to help hosts and managers to really focus on that. So, you know, they are my go-to and they help me with my properties as well. So when a photographer wants, you know, you’re ready to hire a photographer and you think, okay, I’m ready to hire somebody. How much money should I spend? Because that’s where hosts say, oh my gosh, it was how much money you want me to spend?
03:34:24
How much money. And when you look at the number and some people’s eyes, you know, a hundred dollars is too much and other people’s eyes, a hundred dollars is not enough. They say what’s wrong. You’re not good enough. That when I talked to my clients, I tell them, what is your nightly rate at your highest point? And sometimes it’s a hundred bucks. Sometimes it’s $1,500. And I say, okay, if these new photos are going to get you two nights additional at your highest rate, is it worth it? Well, yeah, it’s worth it. I totally, I could totally get easy. Two more nights. It’s like, why are you complaining about, you know, someone charging you for photos, think about it. And how many nights it would take you to recoup that investment. My one of my very first photo shoots, I only charged $500 in which to other people like, oh my gosh, $500 for a four bedroom house.
03:35:27
That’s crazy. Now it’s also $500 plus travel expenses too, on that one. So however, looking at the data of what happened with those brand new photos, the next year, the client went from twenty-five thousand dollars gross before the new photos to $60,000 gross with the new photos. Now you can be a chance to invest $500 over $25,000. I’m there every single day of the year. So thinking about photography and how much you should spend for photography, don’t look at the number as just a number, but look at it and number of nights and what your rate is, you know, to get me out there, it’s going to cost you a lot of money. It’s pretty expensive. However, your return on investment will be incredible. And I can’t promise that, you know, a hundred percent for sure and same with any other professional photographer, but you’ve got to look at it as this is an investment in how is it going to come back? And it always, always comes backs multitude.
03:36:43
Now I am you’re you’re, you’re, you’re kind of the, the expert in the field of Vacation Rental photography. So what about people that aren’t like Vacation Rental property experts when they’re, when you’re going out there and you’re hiring someone that is maybe just, they say that they’re stock around professional photography. I can take photos of your place for, you know, however much what should hosts maybe be letting the photographer know because not everybody that, you know, it’s very, this is very niche. So what, what should host be letting the photographers know to be able to get those photos that will be able to increase their bookings?
03:37:24
For sure. So one, you know, photographers, generally all professional photographers can get a well exposed photo. Okay. The next point is it’s gotta be composed properly. That’s huge. So your composition and your lighting will make a huge difference. And even a real estate photographer is different than a Vacation Rental photographer. So looking at the, your end goal, what is the goal of these photos? Well, when you’re looking at realtor photos, you know, you’ve got a real estate photographer come in. The end goal of those photos is to get somebody to the property, to step foot in the property, look at the house and buy the property. The goal of the Vacation Rental photos is some to get someone, to look at the photos, imagine themselves in the photos, then spend the money to go there. And lastly, step into the space and be like, wow, this is exactly like the photos.
03:38:26
So there are different composition tricks, not tricks, but tips that you’ve got to do to create the photos in way that invites the person into the space and realistically shows the space as well. And you’re, and you’re telling a story too. So, you know, it’s, there’s more marketing involved. It’s not just a well exposed photo. It’s not walking into the room and going click, click, click, click. Okay. See ya. I’m done. There’s a lot more to that. And like I said earlier, it’s, it’s in the details as well. I’ve had clients who they, they say, Hey, tie-in would love to hire you, but it’s just not possible between our schedules. So, you know, we found a photographer nearby. We liked the portfolio. So that’s a big thing is to look through their portfolio and make sure that they’ve done the kitchen rentals. If they haven’t, then you’ll probably end up with a lower price, which might better fit your budget, which is fine.
03:39:20
You know, just make sure their style is the way you like it as well. And then I’ve had clients actually buy my eBooks and give them to the photographer and say, okay, you know, this is what we want. You know, this is how you do it. I don’t, you know, I don’t, I’m not a photographer. I don’t understand, but I know this is great information. Can you read this and learn it and then come shoot our property. So, you know, that’s how I’ve seen some people do it as well. And then I’ve had many photographers reach out to me and say, okay, I’ve got this gig. What do I do? You know, which, Hey, that is awesome. You know, go out and, you know, host managers need photos. We need more photographers who know how to do this space. So the reach out and I’ll say, okay, here’s the book.
04:40:04
Here’s, here’s my video course. If you learn better that way. And then I put it into a photography conference on those international conference and taught Vacation Rental photography there as well. But like I said, at the beginning, when you start out, or even if you’re in this space for five years and you’re just now realizing, oh, important photos are it’s okay to take steps. You don’t have to go straight to the top with professional photography. You know, you don’t have to do that. You can do one, improve yourself on photos. First next, find a high school student or college student who is learning photography and have them do it next, you know, then find a great real, real estate photographer and have them do it next and just build your way up if needed.
04:40:49
So Ty, and you said something really key that you said was that what the real estate photos you’re, you’re just trying to get someone into the property with the Vacation Rental photos. You’re trying to create, you’re trying to allow the person to imagine that they are there and that this is going to be an experience. So for a person that is trying to take these optimal photos to be able to better book their listing, what take both things, should they maybe be highlighting to be able to create or invoke this experience? Should there be more like amenities or should it be just like a big photo of the bed or that one chair in the corner? Like what, what should people be highlighting in their photos?
04:41:29
All of it. But it also comes into the point of directing someone through a house. So when you create the photos, you’ve got to be able to show those doorways and showing the floor plan of the house as you’ve walked through them. And then it’s also up to the host or manager. So you put the photos in an order that walks someone through the house. So when I look at their listing and I see, okay, here, it starts with a picture of the bedroom. And then it shows a picture of the living room and oh, now here’s a picture of outside. Oh, and now here we’re at the kitchen, you know, it’s all our brains. Don’t follow that very well. So you have to keep in mind just human psychology and how our brains work. So when, when I put my photos in order, I’ll do you know, you start it from one year. Wow, you’re golden photo first. And then you walk them through the house and I’ll do like a whole room shot and then a detail shots. So it might be the whole bedroom. And then it might be as a photo of half the bed with the nightstand, just, you know, showing those hospitality details, I think is really important, but don’t go overkill either. Cause if you do just a lot of detail shots, then people don’t really get a sense of the space itself as well.
04:42:43
And, and what, what’s what, what’s a good example of like a wild photo.
04:42:48
Hm. It depends on the property. It honestly does. So like my wild photo for the bank is the great room photo showing the chandelier and the brick wall in the background and the vault off to the side. One of my favorite, wow. Photos is for a property. I shot in Palm Springs several years ago. And it’s right at sunset Twilight hour. And it’s over the pool with the pool lights on and the fire, you know, at its height. Cause she’s got a row of a big, long fire pit. And then you’ve got the, the lounge chairs right there with the umbrella. So it’s, you know, behind the chairs and that’s always, so that’s my signature shot is always behind the chair looking into the view. And so that is a wow photo between the composition and the colors and just creating that space where someone looks at and says, oh my gosh, I want to be there.
04:43:45
I want to be in that chair. I want to be sitting and looking at that sunset over the pool in the mountains in the background is just incredible. So it just, it varies on your property. You know, not everybody has a pool, none of my properties have a pool. You know, I have a neighborhood pool, but you know, you gotta choose what visit that’s unique about your property. But then on the other hand, think about what, what is your target guest? Because if you’re trying to target, you know, romantic weekends, you don’t want to put a pile of beach toys on the sand. This is your lead photo. Okay. You don’t want it to check the kids. But if you’re, if you’re trying to attract families with kids, that might be the better photo of the beach chairs out there with the toys and the umbrella. And you’re right there on the beach with those types of items. So you really have to be careful and aware when you’re choosing your photos, who your target guests is and your location and your, what your property has to offer. It’s all these things rolled together.
04:44:48
I think, I think just what you’re saying is just so, so key because I don’t think maybe a lot of people think about the photos very end up. They just think, oh, I’m going to take the, my phone and click the, click it, get some wide angle shots and we’re good to go. But what you’re saying is the photos it’s like, this is the first step. When someone is looking at your property, you’re now this is your selling point. You’re creating the experience. And you know, we talk a lot, we talk a lot about like branding and niche and trying to find your target audience. But really, it seems like the photos is kind of that the, where you have to start off and that’s where you kind of mold the guest experience and you weed out the people that maybe are trying to find those beach rentals, but you know, you might be by the beach, but that maybe isn’t your niche. Maybe you’re trying to create like romantic getaway. So that’s what you’re highlighting. I think that is just so, so good. So key is, is, is there anything different that you would do if you had to start from scratch? I know you’ve been in the space for a little while now. So is there some things that if you could go back and you have all the knowledge from these Vacation Rental summits and everything, if you could go back now and redo this, what would you do differently?
04:46:02
So I would have started with white linens and white towels.
04:46:10
It’s a white light tower.
04:46:13
It’s I mean, it’s, that’s just one of the most practical things. And I know I bucked it in the beginning. I went with ivory sheets, which is okay, you know, for my king beds. And then I did tope colored linens for the sofa sleepers. I thought, okay, different colors would be easier for the cleaners and everything. Then I went with like tan towels. Well guess what happens when teenagers stay at your place and they have acne medication on their face. Yeah. Your tan towels now have big, bright orange splotches all over them. I think they’re clean, but they’ve been bleached out in these spaces. And I finally, I mean, honestly I try not to do it, but after I think it was like nine years of that, I went nine years and then I finally switched over to commercial linens and towels and I’m like, oh my gosh, it’s so much better. And it’s just, it looks, you know, it’s cleaner, it’s brighter. It looks better in photos, you know? So that, that’s one of the practical things that I would, I would start over with. The other thing I would start is using a reservation management system right away. You know, I was all everything by hand and calender for many, many years. And you only double booked someone twice once, and then you get software. So just start off with software, you know,
04:47:50
That, you know, I guess the big question now is from, from these, these years of experience and, and now knowing that you have to use white towels and linens, w where, where do you get your towels and things? Is there like a specific location that has the best of the best story or what is dying?
04:48:08
Yes. So what I’ve found is I go to my friend, the distinguished guests, and she has herself, you know, tested all of these different linens and all these different products. And, you know, she’s a Vacation Rental host as well for almost as long as I have been. And her goal is to find those best products that are reasonably priced and to withstand that they use that vacation rentals, put these things through. So those things are very important for me. So I started using the linens and towels that she recommended. And one of my favorite parts was that they come pre-washed. So I don’t even, so when they arrive, I don’t have to unpackage and run everything through the washer and dryer and then refold them and then they can be used it’s they arrive, you open the box, you start using them. So to me, you know, the saving of time is
04:48:58
Valuable. Where do you get those?
04:49:03
It would be, I think the company name is a standard textile, but specific ones you’ll have to go to the distinguished guest and look at her site and see which ones, cause there’s all different levels as well. You know, I use the basic commercial ones and then there’s more luxury ones too. It’s just for my properties. The basic ones are good. They’re solid. They last, and I don’t need that extra expense because I’m not in that luxury space.
04:49:32
And if you could give one piece of advice to someone who’s trying to start a short-term rental business, what would that be?
04:49:41
Number one, check your regulations. Number two, get the appropriate insurance. Definitely, definitely get the appropriate insurance. It does not mean you can skate by on just your homeowners insurance. You’ve got to get specific short-term rental insurance, and then number three is get a mentor. You know, find someone you connect with. Like I said earlier, everybody’s different. Everybody has learns differently and everybody teaches differently. So find a mentor that you connect with. Ideally, someone who’s been around a while, they may be in your local area. They may not be in your local area, but you know, look online, read their stuff. If they’ve got videos, watch videos, but really find someone you connect with and their style and their philosophy, because everybody’s got a different philosophy of how things are to be run for me. You know, I’m not, I’m not in the short-term game. I’m not here to make a lot of money real quick in the long-term game.
05:50:41
I want to invest in my properties. I wanna invest in the communities. I want to invest in my guests. You know, it’s, it’s so awesome. When my very one of my very first guests said contacted me last year. And they said, Hey, we stayed at your place for grandpa’s 90th birthday. And he, this next year, he’s turning 100 and we want to come back. You know, that’s the things I invest in. And yeah, it’s long time. It’s a long-term game costs a lot of money, gotta be slow, but when you’re slow and deliberate, as I say, you know, the turtle wins the race. And I very much value my time with my family as well. So I’m perfectly fine with letting you know, making some decisions that are better for my family versus for my business. So, you know, to keep in mind, when you do start your own business, it’s hard.
05:51:38
It is fricking hard. And I’m, I’ve started a couple of my own businesses and my boys have grown up with that. And it, it’s hard to just be aware that when you leave a 40 hour job, you’re leaving it for 80 plus hours of work. Okay. When you work for yourself, it’s more work. It’s not less work. It’s just, I found it works for me because it makes my time more flexible. So I can take my kids to school every day. I can pick them up from school every day. I can be the room mom that throws the parties. I can go on the field trips. I can make sure I’m at baseball games. So I, but that does mean sometimes I’m working at midnight answering questions or filling out templates or working on my reservation management system or editing photos. So just be aware of how it totally changes the structure of your life. And if that really is truly what you want, because again, everybody’s different, you know, we’re all different and it’s okay.
05:52:37
No, that’s, that’s the, one of the great things that I love about this show is the diversity of the types of hosts that we have on here. We have hosts that are in more of the money game. We have hosts that are doing property management. Everybody has their own unique success story. And I think that it’s just so interesting to get this diverse group. And we’re, we’re all, we’re all in this space, but we all have our own unique to that, that we can definitely be able to provide it to guests. And I’m curious, what, where do you see short term rentals going in the future?
05:53:14
Definitely, definitely more mainstream, even more so than now. You know, it, the thing is, is like, gosh, it was like a six year five, six years ago. HomeAway put out the, that only 30% of travelers even knew vacation rentals existed. Obviously that statistic is no longer because more and more people know that short-term rentals, vacation rentals, holiday rentals, holiday lights, self-catering cottage, you know, whatever you want to call it is available. And the thing is, is once someone travels and tastes that way of traveling and they have a good experience because there are bad experiences. Once they have a good experience, it’s addicting and they want to travel more like that. And honestly, I don’t see it as a, I mean, yes, it’s a competition to other ways of lodging, but it’s also very complimentary because everybody travels for a different reason and with a different group of people.
05:54:19
I love staying at hotels. I love staying at resorts, but when I travel with my kids, they get their own space. I get my own space. And when you’re traveling with teenagers or young adults or young kids, you know, you can’t have two different hotel rooms, you know, that are separated. And it’s very difficult to get hotel rooms with a door between them. So it’s not feasible for me to travel with my children and saying it, you know, a hotel room it’s, I don’t want to leave teenage boys on their own. You know, I want them in the same condo or house with me, but when I’m traveling with my husband, totally, you know, give me a resort that has food ready for me right outside my door. It’s me at the hotel desk with a mimosa or something, you know, as people travel more and more.
05:55:10
And that’s one of the things I see happening in the future is people traveling more and more, you know, the generations coming up, they’re going to be traveling more and more. There’s becoming more digital nomads. People are freelancing. People are working remotely and they’re traveling more. So depending upon what type of lodging they want, the way they want to travel, they’ll choose the type of thing they want. And then as we said earlier, everybody’s got different personalities. Some prefer the high service of a hotel resorts, or maybe they prefer just a place with a light on like motel six and they don’t care as long as it’s clean, everybody’s different. But yes, I see the short-term rental space, absolutely growing as the consumer demand grows because we are in the U S it’s, all economics it’s supply and demand, and people worry about place getting oversaturated with short-term rentals. Well, you know what free economics is going to take care of that and pricing will then go down and as the demand goes down or reaches its tipping point, it’s basic economics that you learn in high school.
05:56:18
Very nice. And what, what is something, you know, this might be something that might stump you, but just with the amount of experience that you have, but what, what is a question that maybe you have that, that you are kind of working on or that you would maybe ask another professional hosts about something that is kind of maybe sitting on, on your mind?
05:56:40
Hmm gosh, should have prepped me for this one. Cause there are questions I have, you know, I don’t, I don’t know at all. I am always learning. And I, one of the things I do is I’m always trying to educate myself better learning from other people and whether it’s people more experienced or people less experienced and just have a fresh view on different things. The other thing I do is I try to look at other industries and absorb what’s going on and the workflows and marketing and different things that they’re doing. And then seeing how I can apply that to my vacation rentals or to my photography business, or to touch date, digital welcome books. You know, if there’s some new idea that someone has, I’d love to hear it, you know, even just to brainstorm it and walk through it and maybe we can figure out how to apply it somewhere.
05:57:36
You know, something, something I would ask someone else. Well, you know, I have an appointment with Megan McCray, the hospitality creator tomorrow, and I’m going to ask her, what is the thing I need to focus on for my 10 bedroom house. It’s over whelming to me to do the interior design. I I’ve got a sense of what I want and the feelings I want it to convey, but making that plan and the steps and simply, okay, what’s the best type of lighting for this. And this is the style I want, but I don’t know what light to use. You know, the thing is, is you don’t know what you don’t know. And the older I get, you know, they say eight wisdom comes with age. So I’m getting wiser. And the fact that I am so happy to find someone with the skills I do not have, or with better skills than the low skills that I have and pay them, I value them.
05:58:45
And I think a lot of people don’t understand that, especially in the marketing and service industry, they don’t value those types of people, but it’s so important to value them. So those skills don’t get lost. You need those skills you do. And like with the talks about photos, people just throw photos up there. Guess what photos is the number one thing your guests see first, you have got to value those. So, you know, I value my plumber immensely, especially when my basement leaked last week, you know, I’m on the phone with them, my basement links. I need you please, you know, I value his skills, just like you value an electrician. It’s so important. Anyway, I probably didn’t quite answer your question.
05:59:34
So no, that, that was great. That was it. That was a good question. What do you do? What do you do when you have such a large unit that needs to be, you know, decorated? Well, that, that seems like a very overwhelming thing to have to consider. Like, you know, how is each room going to be distinguished? And how is, how are you going to create this, this, this type of environment for such a big unit? I think that that’s a really good question for people that are maybe operating larger units, but thank you so much, Diane, for taking the time and just sharing just the amount of wisdom and wealth of knowledge that you have very honored and humbled to be able to do a talk with you. And until next time, host nation keep on hosting,
06:00:17
Hope he hosts benefited from the show. If you found value, please go on over to iTunes, leave us a review and let us know what you enjoy about the show. If you’d like to talk to hosts that have been featured in these episodes, as well as the community, going over to our Facebook group, the host nation, talk to your host and the next step. So keep on hosts.
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