Rick Carlson:                      00:00                     You know, don’t cheat your cleaners like these are the people that make your world possible. So to cheat them or shortchange them, it’s just not good business in my opinion. So pay them a wage that makes them want to perform really well for you.

Julian Sage:                         00:14                     This is episode number two, six of short term mental success stories podcast. Welcome back to short term rental success stories. I’m your host Julian Sage. This is a show where I talk to hosts about their journeys and starting and growing the short term rental business. My goal is that you’ll be able to walk away with practical information that will help you become a better host and learn how to scale your business. But I have the honor of speaking with Rick Carlson, Rico, South Dakota and Idaho and owns two duplexes, managing a total of four units. Rick being a real estate agent, host and cleaning company owner shares his experiences and managing these three different aspects of the business that allow him to be a full time entrepreneur. Rick shares a lot of really great information all about his experiences and growing and cleaning company and finding reliable cleaners.

Julian Sage:                         00:57                     So we had a five star review come in on iTunes from S, Z, G, G, Z. And they said, my wife and I are realtors who own rental properties, several of them, and that they’ve been studying a lot about getting into Airbnb for a while, but they started listening to this podcast and they learned about Airbnb rental arbitrage or the subleasing model. And they had so many ideas from the guests that they said they felt comfortable enough to ask one of their clients if they could rent out their condo and turn it into an Airbnb. They go on in the review. But long story short is that they listed their property on Airbnb and in only two weeks they had nine bookings. They said it’s been a lot of fun and we’re looking forward to getting another one and another and another. And yeah, that’s so awesome.

Julian Sage:                         01:38                     So congratulations. I am so happy for you that you are a part of the host nation, that you’re growing and learning. And I really that all of this content, that all of these tips and tricks and awesome interviews that they are helping you. So thank you so much for leaving that really nice review. That really does make my day. So if you are a host, you know how important reviews are guys. So please go on over to iTunes and leave us a review. Let us know what you like and if there’s something that you want us to improve, feel free to send us a message and let us know how we can improve. I wanted to share with you guys a tool that I’ve been using that has really changed my business. It has saved me so much time, so much headache and has really taken my business to another level because it just saves so much time and looks professional and that is acuity scheduling.

Julian Sage:                         02:24                     It’s a tool that, it’s a scheduling software there. I can actually input times where I’m working or when I am not taking calls and I can set my schedule for the week or for the month and it’s super easy and convenient for me to change it. And what’s really nice is that when I send this to people now we don’t have to do that awkward dance of Hey, what time’s available for you? Or I’m working blah blah blah. So I’d love the scheduling capability of acuity and it really just makes everything look so much more professional because I can actually create direct links for different types of purposes. So if I’m doing the podcast, I can send a podcasting link and I can like questions related to that. And if I’m doing like a real estate, so like with short term rentals and I have a client that I want to talk to, I can send them a direct link and I can either have questions or not have questions and it’s very customizable and works really well with my business.

Julian Sage:                         03:14                     And for anybody that is in the short term mental space, if you are taking on rental arbitrage clients or co-host clients, anything like that, it does help to be able to coordinate. So if you want to support the show then go on over to short term siege.com backslash acuity. You can try it out, see if you like it. If you don’t like it, cancel it. But it is really made my life a whole lot easier and I know that it will yours. And that’s why I am sharing this with you today. With all that being said, onto this week’s conversation, Hey, welcome back host nation to another episode of short term rental success stories. In this episode, I have these special honor of speaking with Rick Carlson. Rick, if you please wouldn’t mind introducing yourself to the host nation and letting us know who you are and what inspired you to get into short term rentals.

Rick Carlson:                      03:58                     Hello, host nation. Rick Carlson. I am a father of two. I am a full time practicing realtor mortgage loan officer. And then I won a couple of other small companies as well. And what got me into Airbnb is I had originally bought a do flex back in 2014. Lived in it and then the duplex across the street after four years of her putting on the market multiple times and not selling, she finally sold it to me. The bank knew, they, they committed to the loan, knew how much money I had, didn’t want to give me the loan. They required that I put down in 90% of the cash on hand that I had thinking that I would back out. But I’m a horrible quitter, so I just move forward. I’m like, we’re doing this. So I closed on it. I’m sitting on my front porch and I, I, in five weeks I have two house payments due and I have no money.

Rick Carlson:                      04:49                     And I’m like, okay, what can I do? And here in quarter lane, up until last year, we had a full Ironman, which was a very sought after race within the iron man community. And so we were about three weeks away from that. And I thought, you know what, what better way to generate some quick cash to make this, this house payment that I have coming up. And so I literally took my, I took my clothes in my junk drawer and I went across the street and I slept on the floor for a good month until I could afford to buy a bed. And I, that’s how I got into Airbnb. It was, it was strictly out in necessity. And you know, my first year I was very, I had a really short season cause we’re very seasonal here and went to got that done and then ended up finding a winter Renner by the grace of God and then moved into my second season. So now I’m in my third year of Airbnb. And things are going, going really well and I feel like I’ve, I’ve finally found my feet and got it figured out. It’s I’m a slow learner apparently. So.

Julian Sage:                         05:51                     And you’re not sleeping on a, on a pile of clothes anymore, right?

Rick Carlson:                      05:54                     No. Yeah. I’m not sleeping on a pallet of clothes. Yeah, it was, was, it’s kinda hard to date when you have no clue when you have no furniture in your house. And people were like, you know, what are you girls are like, what do you, what are you doing? I’m like, no, no, no. You don’t understand. I have a full house. I own, like, I have my stuff. It’s just not here.

Julian Sage:                         06:10                     That’s, it’s always funny. The a, I, we, we’ve had some guests on the show and that they’re, they’re, they’re homeless, but they own them. They have like a bunch of properties, but they just don’t like have like an official home that they like reside and they’re just kind of bouncing around. So I think that’s pretty funny. Yeah. This, this, this coming summer,

Rick Carlson:                      06:26                     We’re we’re in the process of looking for a new house and I’m trying to, cause the house I’m in now, I’m still living in the new duplex. I’m in the big side of that. And w we don’t especially like it, like it’s a great property that has a phenomenal numbers, but we just don’t really enjoy living here. So my kids know that like, they may come home and we’ve moved, like I never tell them we’re moving, so we just move and they come home and they’re like, Oh, I have a new room. And so, yeah, I mean I’m kinda in the same boat. Like I, we’re going to rent that house out now that we’re in now this summer. So we’ll, we’ll be a little bit of nomadic next summer.

Julian Sage:                         07:04                     So seasonal. You said your seasonal you only rent during the summers. Why, why aren’t you able to rent during the off season? So are

Rick Carlson:                      07:15                     Season pretty much runs from a Memorial day to labor day. That’s the, that’s the bulk of our season. Because we’re heavy on the tourist industry cause we have quarter lane here, which is kinda lot like the Lake of the stars. Like Gretzky has a place here, like there’s just a ton of people that have places here and so great place to be in the summer. In the winter, the, the winters can be kind of long. So most people leave, they go back to Phoenix or wherever, someplace warm and we’re just not super sought after. We do have some ski resorts around, but once again, if you’re coming for ski resorts, you’re going to stay there, you’re not going to stay in quarter lane. So typically what I do in the winters is I look for a winter Renner. Somebody that is moving into the market or somebody that is a just needing a place to stay until April and then they move out. And so I, I’ve done really well last winter. Was the first winter that I, I had, so now I have one unit that is dedicated Airbnb, I won’t rent it out long term. And then I have three units total. So one of this winter I have one unit rented through April and then I’m looking for, because I don’t think there’s enough volume there to carry to through the winter. I’m looking for another Renner for for my small one bedroom unit. So we’re just seasonal in that sense. That’s why.

Julian Sage:                         08:38                     So what, what some people do, I don’t know what your strategy is. They, they might like only do like month long bookings. How are you just getting in like just enough to cover the, the, the mortgage payment or how does that work when you are in a seasonal location and trying to supplement for those times that it is slower?

Rick Carlson:                      08:59                     I play with the prices a lot and I, I really massage those to figure out what is the, what’s the sweet spot. We do have people that still come here for work and for whatever, for whatever through the winter. So one thing that I did figure out, and I, and I, it was by total accident, I had a tenant last winter that she would come, her husband was going through chemotherapy at our local hospital. So he would come for five days every like every, like 15 to 15 to 18 days. He would be back for five days. So they would rent it for five, six, seven days, like every three weeks. And I, you know, and I worked with them like I totally, I totally like it was a blessing for both of us. So I worked with them on the price, but that is really what saved me last winter for me to float through the winter.

Rick Carlson:                      09:55                     Luckily, I have other businesses that still make money. And so you know, I do a bulk of my business in the summer and then I saved my money and it, I feel the deficits are the winter and we just kinda Rob from Peter to pay Paul A. Little bit. We’ll see what happens this summer or this winter. I’ve got a really good renter coming in from my, for one of my units and he’s essentially going to cover it. Like, I mean he’ll basically cover all the carrying costs for that particular property just by renting that one unit out. So that takes a lot of pressure off.

Julian Sage:                         10:28                     Now what do you do when you are getting in longterm people in there because you have these units furnished for Airbnb are rentals, so they have probably everything in it, I imagine. How do you, how do you do that when you are getting in a person that you know, maybe has a bunch of stuff with them?

Rick Carlson:                      10:46                     So I basically take out the, I take, I leave the beds and the in the big furniture I leave and that they understand like that’s part of the deal. They’re gonna like they have to deal with that. If they have stuff, it has to go on storage. I at this point two winters ago I had a winter Renner and I was just excited to, to have a winter cause I was, I was like, Oh man, what am I going to do for like six, six, seven months? Like this is bad. And so I moved everything out so they can move their stuff in. It was so miserable setting that thing up again. I was just like, I’m not doing this again. So I, that’s essentially what I do is I take out the dishes and the sheets and the, all the stuff and they, they get left with beds. I don’t really have any dressers but beds, sofa, that kind of stuff. And then I just take pots, pans, dishes, sheets in that stuff out and then let them, let them show up with that stuff.

Julian Sage:                         11:43                     And are you charging more like a premium price because there is extra stuff in the unit that they wouldn’t have to pay for or are you just kind of leaving it

Rick Carlson:                      11:52                     Or regular rental? It’s, it’s a little bit premium but it realistically it comes down to what can I get for this unit cause I, if I have to rent it at market rate and leave it furnished, that’s fine. Cause I’m just happy to get it rented through the winter. Cause I don’t wanna I, I don’t want that to be a deal killer. So for me to pay, you know, cause we’re talking, you know, $1,400 a month for, you know, we’re talking, you know, eight grand or more after it’s all said and done. So I, I’m, I’m pretty flexible on that. I, I’m not, you know, I’m here to make money. And, and you know, I see some people in the forums and other Airbnb people I know in there. They’re like, Oh, I don’t want that many people in my house.

Rick Carlson:                      12:38                     And I’m just like, what do you care? I mean, last summer I managed to house just about a mile North of me and we were going to be selling the house and the client was like, I don’t care, just I want to make the most money possible. So I co-hosted it. I charged her 50% split. Like we had a set amount that she took. She took like $1,300 off the top to cover her expenses and then we split everything else, 50, 50. But I mean I wrote her a check for $22,000 for 10 weeks worth of work. She didn’t do anything. I did the, you know, so basically I got about 20, she got about 22 for 10 weeks and that was because we would have 20 people stay in the house and they were sleeping on the floor and they didn’t care. So I have one unit like that where I don’t care how many people were in there.

Rick Carlson:                      13:31                     My other units really nice. So I try to limit that unit to about eight people at max. And then my other units, a one bedroom, one bath and I usually I limit that one to four. But you know, I’m here to make money so I don’t care. Like if you don’t mind sleeping on the floor and you’re willing to give me an extra 20 bucks a night, enjoy yourself. Now I think, well what you’ve done kind of w which is pretty cool is you’ve incorporated your your, your real estate experience being a realtor and you also have the janitorial business. Do you mind kind of explaining how that works altogether? Sure. So with my janitorial company, I’m able to draw from, and it’s not a big janitorial company and we’re not talking like I have, you know, 50 employees or anything like that. I keep it pretty small.

Rick Carlson:                      14:18                     I have a really phenomenal lady who runs my janitorial company. Her name is Sally and she just rocks it. And so she’s a teacher during the year and then she works, she cleans at night for me because she likes the extra money. And then during the summer, she’s out of school and she like, you know, she still wants to work. So she does all my Airbnb cleaning and then she, when she’s not available to clean, she caught it. She helped coordinate the other cleaners to come in and fill her in. And then from there you know, the janitorial company was, was the actually what was left over from a previous company that I owned. Still the same company, but we just redefined what we did and how we did it. And so a janitorial is kind of what out of everything that company did.

Rick Carlson:                      15:04                     Janet Torres, what survived? Essentially for me it was mailbox money. And, and it, it took very little of my time after I got it up and running. Most people think, Oh, Jennifer, so easy. Well, it’s, it’s worth like Airbnb hosting. It’s a lot of work on the front side, but after you figure it out, it, it’ll run itself. And so then where the real estate on my profile, it says that I’m, you know, I’m a realtor and a licensed mortgage broker. So that, and that’s my, that’s on purpose and what happens and what I get. And it doesn’t happen a time, but it’s happening more and more, especially in the market we’re in, where people are coming in, they’re coming in to look at houses and they’re coming in to explore the area. And so I’ve had, I mean, I’ve probably had five to 10 people this this summer that have come in and stayed with me, partly because I was a realtor.

Rick Carlson:                      15:59                     Now the other part of it is that I have really nice, clean, modern remodel places and they, they like that. They want that. But, but for some of them, the deciding factor was, Hey, this guy’s a realtor. We don’t know anybody, yada, yada, yada. And so then, then we try, we chat and you know, sometimes it generates business and sometimes it doesn’t. It’s just, but it’s just another fish in the line as a realtor to, to give me an opportunity to maybe find clients that need help that otherwise wouldn’t have access to. And is the janitorial business, are you running that all year long or is it only the summers? Yeah, so the janitorial business is actually pretty cool. It, while it is hard work it, once you get it up and going, it, it’s, it’s the same month in, month out. We only do we do it very specific niche.

Rick Carlson:                      16:49                     We do large facilities and so you know, cause like most janitorial accounts, you’re there for like maybe an hour and then you’re onto the next one. You’re onto the next one. Well, I don’t get paid for drive time. My, my people are my contractors who cleaned for me. They, they get paid by the, by the clean. So I figured out, okay, let’s go get big facilities. Let’s make the numbers work for everybody. So when they land on our facility, they’re there. They’re usually there for, you know, three, four hours. So they make per capita, they make more money. And I, I’ve got a pretty good deal. Worked out with them, so they’re really happy. They’re not going anywhere. It works really well for them. They can just show up. Do their job and go home and boom, it’s, it’s good. So you know, for me it’s, I have the relationships with the facilities and they trust and they trust and know that my people are good because I pick them and I don’t have, I don’t hesitate to replace somebody if they need to be replaced. And, and I’ve shown that to them and one of my accounts said, listen, I could have, I could have fired you, but then I’d have to go find a new new janitor. I’d rather keep you and let you find the new janitor.

Julian Sage:                         18:05                     You know, that, that’s one of the things in the space that so many people have issues with is finding reliable cleaners. And, you know, being a guy that runs a janitorial company you, you must have a lot of experience with hiring and training and getting people ready to, to clean. How w what is your process from for finding and then getting cleaners to be able to work with you.

Rick Carlson:                      18:31                     So first and foremost, I look for people that are, that are quality people, the gen, the cleaning world in general. It’s kind of a, an I, so, so my little backstory in the janitorial world is when I, so when I went in the Marine Corps, I was on a special program where I came home to go to school during the winter and then I would deploy in the summer. And so when I came home for the winter, I was like, Oh, I needed a job. And I’m like, and I see all my friends and they’re working like $6 an hour, $6 an hour jobs. This was back in like 95. And I would, I figured out that I could go, I could go clean toilet, you know, scrub toilets and clean offices for like four hours a night and I would make exponentially more money than they were. So I’d worked 20 hours a week and I would make more money than they were making 40 hours a week and I got to go to work when I wanted to.

Rick Carlson:                      19:23                     It just had to be done in that night. Like it was just a, it was, it seemed really good to me and I, I’m not, I don’t mind working. So that, that’s how I started the gender world company and then, you know, over the years I got out of it and I was done with it and then I got, I got back in it and then I had another company and you know, it just, everything just kind of tied together, came back together. And so but the Jen, the cleaning world in general is, it’s really, it’s really people that are working really hard for the money that they make. And most people, they do it for a limited amount of time and then they get out and then you’ve got the other half. Like that’s what they’ve done their whole life. So you’ve just gotta be careful with some of the people you get in.

Rick Carlson:                      20:07                     And that’s why I look for the really great people. Like I want to know that your a great human first and foremost for multiple reasons, but you know, it’s a, that’s the biggest thing. And then, and then basically looking for that ideal person that it fits their niche and you, you know, they’re going to be with you for a long time. And, and I’ve just been doing it for so long, I kind of have an idea of like, Oh, this person’s, they’re going to leave me when the next best thing comes along. And if you’re on my inner circle per se you know, it’s everybody that works for me in some form or fashion. They started out with me where it making 10 or 12 bucks an hour and now they all make exponentially more than that. So I’m very much, you know, you’ve got to pay the Piper before you see the land of milk and honey and once you, once the, and those are the people that I want because I know they’re with me for the bigger purpose, not just here to make a dollar.

Rick Carlson:                      21:02                     So, so that’s the biggest thing. What have you found for finding reliable cleaners? Like what is your process of like with the advertising or the sourcing, where are you pulling these cleaners from for your business? So when you find what I found is most good, most good cleaners, most great cleaners, cause I only hired great cleaners, most great cleaners, no other great cleaners. So when I have a need or an opening, usually that’s being, that’s being drawn from their circles. And, and then because you’ve got somebody that you’ve taken care of, they love working with you and they want their friends to have that same thing and then they know that they make more money with me and then they make anywhere else. So they’ll bring you good people as well. So you know, when you, when you hold the cards, so to speak of a great situation, everybody wants a piece of it.

Rick Carlson:                      22:02                     So I, I would say generally you’re looking within you know, as we, as we roll out so the name of the new company is vacation clean. And as we roll out vacation clean we’re going to be having a vetting process in order to find those great cleaners and really ensure that you know, quality people are coming into your, into your Airbnb and turning it over and, and resulting in a finished product that you would deliver yourself. And can you give a rundown or some of the key things when you are doing that vetting process? What are you highlighting? Absolutely. So we look at, you know, so we look for references. We look for, you know, we do background checks. We want to make sure that the people that are coming in. So like one of the instances is if you, let’s say you’re a brand new cleaner we’re not going to send you into a 5,000 square foot turnover.

Rick Carlson:                      22:58                     Like that’s going to be a disaster. So you, you have to be a certain level of cleaner to get approved. You have to be a proven cleaner in order to get into that next realm of clean, which obviously you make more money. So being in the business, I understand like, you know, a new cleaner that’s only clean one bedrooms walks into a six bedroom house, it’s going to take them twice as long as it would somebody who’s used to cleaning six bedroom houses. So, you know, once again, it’s just looking, you know, and then I would say communication is vitally important. If they don’t know what you’re wanting, they can’t deliver it. And that’s just, that’s, that’s that simple checklist and manuals, those go a long ways. Pictures

Julian Sage:                         23:47                     And with your cleaners, do you typically, do you typically find it better because if you’re, if you have a cleaning job are you contracting that out and just giving them a portion or are you training people in house and making them like w two employees giving them benefits with maybe a lower pay? How does that work with, with cleaners? I’m an addict

Rick Carlson:                      24:10                     For entrepreneurship. So I decided about two years ago that I was done with employees. So I fired everybody and then everybody that the of the people that I really enjoyed working with and that were great, I guided them down the road to being a self employed. And so the people that I have, they’re all contractors. They all worked for other people, not just me. And a lot of that is I’ve promoted them and recommended them. So I, in my market, I’m kinda known as that Airbnb guy, oddly enough. And so they, they call me and they’re like, do you have a, do you have a good cleaner? And so I’ll refer them out. And my cleaners, they, they enjoy working with me and they see the value of, of me. So I’m always first priority for them. So if they’ve got, if they’re overbooked, I get done first, but, but it’s because I’ve brought that value and I’ve taken care of them and I’ve paid them. I typically pay them more. I mean my Airbnb cleaners average probably 30, I paid them a flat fee a to answer that question. But I would say my my cleaner’s average $30 an hour.

Julian Sage:                         25:23                     Wow. Yeah. That, that’s, that’s a, that’s a really good rate. What, so when you, when you are charging for a home how, how do you, how do you, like let’s say for the hosts out there that don’t really know what to charge for a cleaner or for their, their type of unit, what, what, what, is there a good rule of thumb for how much they should be spending?

Rick Carlson:                      25:46                     So I, I based it on time. So how much time does it going to take to clean this unit to a low, to a level of expectation that is gonna want a five star review.

Speaker 3:                           25:58                     Yeah.

Rick Carlson:                      25:59                     And, and I judge my cleaners based on that and so, and like we’re, we’re consistently getting five star reviews. I got one three star review a couple of weeks ago and it was because the guy booked was wine showed up with eight

Rick Carlson:                      26:14                     And I was just like, that’s not happening. So he was best and he gave me a three star review and that was fine. It’s, it’s not a big deal. They wouldn’t remove it because it was within the boundaries of, of Airbnb, even though I explained the situation. But you know, what I would say is, you know, don’t shoot your cleaners. Like these are the people that make your world possible. So to sort of cheat them or shortchange them, it’s just not, it’s just not good business in my opinion. So pay them a, pay them a wage that makes them want to perform really well for you. And also if they’re booked, because listen, we’re all, we’re all human here. If you’ve got four jobs lined up today, you’re going to do the least pain one last probably. Cause if you don’t get to it, it wasn’t the end of the world. Yeah, you got somebody that’s upset, but like, I’m not going to forfeit $40 an hour for $15 an hour. So take care of your people. I like to do it on a contract basis just simply because I want my world to be simple and I want, I want to be able to write them a check and not worry about the taxes and all that fun stuff.

Julian Sage:                         27:25                     Yeah, I think, I think a lot of hosts, they think, Oh well it’s a cleaner so they should only be getting, you know, the minimum wage. W I’m, I’m sure that you probably have a, a your thoughts on that.

Rick Carlson:                      27:38                     Here’s what, yeah, I do have a thought on that and it’s just simply what would you work for? Like if you were doing this job, what would you expect to make? So why would you pay, why would you pay somebody else even less? Like be fair, like these people have families. You think their first choice is to clean? Probably not. Their first choice would probably be to work. Try to make the same money and not work as hard. Obviously this is a lot of work. It works for a lot of people because number one, they can make more money cleaning than they can doing other things. But two, it also gives them the sense of satisfaction of providing a good, a good finished product for somebody. Like there’s satisfaction in that. You know, I, I’ve owned multiple cleaning carpet cleaning businesses over the years, and the, the beauty of that business is you see the instant results.

Rick Carlson:                      28:29                     It’s not like real estate where we start working together and I’ll see results in, in three to six, maybe nine months when we closed on the house. Oh. And by the way, I don’t get paid until then. Either. These people do the job now and within a couple of days they’re going to see a check for that job. So there’s satisfaction to that. And, and, and I think it is a, it is a great business. It can be a great business when you figure out, like, you know, that’s the other side of it. If you’re not a great host and you’re not, you don’t have sympathy and

Speaker 3:                           29:00                     Sure,

Rick Carlson:                      29:02                     Truly feel for that cleaner. They’re not gonna want to work for you. And that’s what I, you know, and I see it, I see it within my local market where people, I got a call, I got a call a couple weeks ago from a lady who cleans an Airbnb and she’s like, listen, this, this person is not very pleasurable and I just, I don’t want to, I don’t want to deal with them anymore. Do you want to, do you want this account? I will just give it to you. And I’m like, no. Like I don’t want that. I don’t want it. It’s not worth the time. It’s more important to me to be, to do great business. I’d rather make less money and do great business than to make expeditiously more money and, and just be known as, you know, there’s somebody locally that is most people don’t realize he’s worth probably $25 million, but he’s done it because he owns every slum apartment complex in town. Like is that really how you want to make your money?

Julian Sage:                         30:01                     No, that, that, that’s true. That that’s a, you have to treat the people that are working for you. What would you say are some of the, the the key things for being able to find and maintain those cleaners? Because a lot of, a lot of hosts have issues with like a cleaner, they’ll, they’ll just leave or maybe they, you know, they don’t like the, the inconsistent schedule. How do you, how do you maintain someone that is flexible?

Rick Carlson:                      30:24                     So for me, it is a matter of helping them build their business so they’re not solely reliable on me. So I have one, I have one gentleman who contracts with me. He’s, he’s actually a retired janitor and he wants to get out of the house. Him by the grace of God, him and his wife have been married for like 40 years, the over 40 years. And he needs to get out of the house cause he just retired like two years ago or not even two years ago. And he’s like, I can’t, I can’t sit at home. So when you bring, most people don’t leave you for money. They may say they’re leaving you for money, but most people don’t leave you for money and they, they leave because they’re not appreciated or valued. So when you bring that appreciation and value and you really make them feel good about working for you and you truly appreciate them, I’m not saying fake it.

Rick Carlson:                      31:15                     They’re going to want to see you proof. See you do well and see you you know, really Excel. And I think as a cleaner, if you think outside the box, so like the lady who runs my janitorial company and who, who runs my Airbnb cleans. While she may be a niche person, I know multiple Airbnb hosts who have somebody like Sally who runs a runs there. Eric essentially runs their Airbnb. I have one friend who lives locally. She has an Airbnb like four hours away. It’s a huge house. It’s just short of an event, an event center. It’s a small winery. Basically it’s a vineyard and she charges a $250 cleaning fee and she gives all that money to the cleaner, the cleaners in there almost every day for some reason or another. But this woman’s probably making $2,000 a month and she’s maybe working 20 hours a week at most. And this woman loves her. They love each other and like it works because she and she’s valued. Now, could she pay her less and still get the same finished product? Yes. But is that woman willing to go over there at nine o’clock at night if there’s an issue? No. So pay them, pay them what they’re worth and they’ll take care of you and they create other opportunity for them to fill in the gaps. And once again that you’re just bringing more value,

Julian Sage:                         32:49                     I think. I think that that’s key, that what you’re saying was that, you know, you have to, I think so many hosts are out there and they’re saying like, Oh my, my cleaner wants to charge me, you know, $80 or $60 for like a, a single, you know, for maybe a studio apartment or something like that. You know, whatever that is in their perspective market, they, they feel that it’s, it’s way over priced. And that’s probably what the market rate for cleaners is going. But they would rather find someone that you know is coming, you know, from like let’s say just like doesn’t speak a lick of English and you know, is willing to work for anything and they just want to give them like, you know, under the minimum wage and expect a five star cleaning. But do you think that that’s even possible?

Rick Carlson:                      33:31                     It’s not going to be a sustainable model long term. I think there’s a happy median. So I had we were looking for a fill in person when Sally was unavailable and we had reached out to one mutual friend who, who cleans and you know, she was wanting $150

Rick Carlson:                      33:52                     And I’m like, this is like a 60 to 90 minute clean, maybe even less if just one person stayed in the unit. I mean at worst it’s a 90 minute clean cause it’s a three bedroom, one bath, it’s not, and it’s not super big. And you know, I just nixed that off. I think there is, there is something to be said. You know, most of these people, they, they’ve been, they’re tarnished. Their turn is just the same. Like you’ve had bad luck finding you cleaner. They haven’t had the best luck finding a good person to clean for. So if you, if you just sit them down and say, listen, this is like, you should know as a host, like how many, how many turnovers do you have a month? Like Sally’s making, I mean, it sounds making bank because you know, on on, on some days, like, like today I have to turn two turnovers. Yesterday I had three turnovers. So there’ll be multiple times a week that I’ll have like three turnovers they’re making, they’re making 33 if they, if I have three turnovers in one day, now all three of my Airbnbs are like literally across the street from each other. I have to, I have a duplex with two units and then right across the street, everyone, another unit. And then next summer I’ll have four units and they’re all going to be right together. So they’re able to do that. But she’ll clean for three hours and make it 100 bucks,

Rick Carlson:                      35:20                     If that, I mean, depending on, depending on how things go. And, and we’re going to be reorganizing our systems as we go going into next year to streamline that process and get that time down. But you know, what else is she gonna make $33 an hour? It’s just not a, especially in this market, it’s just not there. So I think [inaudible] to answer your question, I think you have to filter through some cleaners and figure out, you gotta figure out, figure out your value proposition as a host. What do you bring to this person? And then how do you, how do you help them build more business to bring yourself value? You know, I, I had a, I had a painter who she was painting for me at least once a month and making probably 500 to a thousand dollars at a minimum every month from me. And then she, and I send her a lot of business and then she raised my prices. How would you do that?

Julian Sage:                         36:21                     So, so what, what would you, what would you do differently if you had to start from scratch with with your cleaning, with the cleaning operations side of your business, if you, if you had to redo things and and with the knowledge that you have now with hiring cleaners, finding cleaners, paying cleaners and running a, a short term rental operation what would you do differently?

Rick Carlson:                      36:45                     I would have implemented my, I would have implemented the cleaners sooner. So when I first started, like the very first summer I did all the cleans with myself because I couldn’t afford to pay, I couldn’t afford to farm them out. I needed every penny I could get. The, the problem with that is, you know, if you’re one of those people that’s good at a lot of things, you end up not being great at, at anything. And so where I’m like, okay, like right now I’m renovating the exterior of that, of the duplex across the street. Well, they want, you know, they, they want $10,000 for the roof or more, and it’s $1,500 worth of material. I’m like, okay, I can do that. Like I’ll just spend three days up there and saved myself, you know, $8,500. And I was like, well, I’m not gonna make $8,500 at work and the next three days.

Rick Carlson:                      37:36                     So that makes sense to me. So I think that you just need to figure out what you’re figuring out what your core is and you hire everything else. And so for the cleaning world, I would’ve hired somebody sooner. Mike, my cleaners at the time when I first got into Airbnb, there wasn’t a lot of availability for them during the day, so I was a little limited there. But I would definitely hire that out sooner. And then I would just say scale, you know, get, get that first one under your belt and then get that second one as soon as possible. If that’s your model, if you’re in this business to make money, then you should be scaling quickly. Figure the first one out, get the second one in, figure that out, figure them out together because multiple is a much different situation. You know, my girlfriend’s like, I don’t understand how you do it. And I’m just like, to me it’s just, that’s how my brain works. It just happens. And then once again, once you’re scaling and you’re making money and you have the money to pay, then it, then, then it feeds in. And so if I just had one Airbnb, it would be really tough to clean to find a cleaner for that one. Airbnb to Vale be available on random days between 11 and three. That would be tough. Once again, where the need for vacation clean comes in and I can solve that problem.

Julian Sage:                         38:57                     Great. Well thank you so much for the experience and insight. I think it is very unique to having someone that does run a a janitorial company and also is operating in the short term mental space. I’ll include everything in the show notes. If anybody who does want to reach out to you, to Rick and until next time host nation, keep on hosting Hopi hosts benefit from the show. If you found value, please go on over to iTunes. Leave us a review and let us know what you enjoy about the show. If you’d like to talk, the hosts that have been featured in these episodes as well as the community, go on over to our Facebook group, the host nation, talk to you hosting the next step, so to keep on hosting.