Joel Edwards:                    00:00                    So what I’ve learned is you really have to step your game up now if you’re going to shine. This last unit that I purchased, I bought a PAC-man machine, which is something I would have never thought about doing before. It was a $400 estimate, but it’s a really cool stand up arcade Pac-Man machine. It has a little stool with it. Since I’ve had that rent out, I literally had guests, Oh, I love the PAC man machine. It’s only been a couple of months since I’ve had the property up and running, but I know for sure because people have told me that’s why they booked the place was because they saw that Pac-Man machine.

Julian Sage:                       00:32                    This is episode number 46 of the short term rental success stories podcast. Are you an investor that’s looking to have your home professionally managed? Got to cohostit.com for more information. Welcome back to short term rental success stories. I’m your host Julian Sage. This is a show where I talk to hosts about their journeys in starting and growing the short term rental business. My goal is that you’ll be able to walk away with practical information that’ll help you become a better host and learn how to scale your business like any exceptional hosts. We all strive for five star reviews, so please go on over to iTunes and let us know what you enjoy because it really helps support the show if you haven’t done so already. Going over to our Facebook group, the host nation to connect with the community.

Julian Sage:                       01:12                    Hey. What is going on host nation? I am super excited to be back again with you this week. There’s a lot of stuff happening in the shorter rental space. We’re finishing up January, which means that we are just about a month away from high season. We’re also a month away from 50 episodes. That is so crazy and I really can’t keep this a secret from you guys anymore because I do want you all to start benefiting right away. We’re coming into a season where people are going to be making a lot more money and I want you guys to be making money too, so a few things that you should be looking at for in the next few weeks is one Jon and I are going to be hosting a live training on starting and growing a rental arbitrage co-hosting business so we like to talk about both sides of the coin because they are both really important in the short term rental space.

Julian Sage:                       01:53                    If you’re interested in starting your own vacation rental machine, we’re actually going to be breaking down our formula for how you can actually do this. Two is that we’ve been getting a lot of requests to open up the BNB empire builders mastermind group again and guys we will be opening that back up again. Maybe it’s going to be happening during March. We’ll see. High season, there’s going to be a lot of stuff going on, but I do want to open that back up because I like talking with you all and it is such an awesome community to be able to talk with everybody one on one and a little bit more personally and see everybody grow. We’ve seen so much growth in the group so far and people are really making big leaps and bounds in their BNB empires and then three is cohostit. Obviously, I’m super excited for the returns that we’re going to be able to see for our investors.

Julian Sage:                       02:38                    Imagine having a rental arbitrage unit that you just had to put the money down and somebody else manages it for you. It’s really the best of both worlds and if you want to find out more information about our turnkey rental arbitrage program, then go to cohostit.com for more information. But in this episode I had the special honor of speaking with Joel Edwards. Joe has been short term rental investing in Phoenix, Arizona since 2012 but transitioned to becoming a full time real estate investor and real estate agent in 2015. Joel owns five condos, has one rental arbitrage unit and four co-hosts clients and recently started to rent out two rooms in his own home. Joel got into short term rentals accidentally when he and his wife were going on an extended vacation to Europe and Peru. Joel asked one of his friends who had an Airbnb and was successful to see if they could take care of his empty property while he was away and three months later, Joel came back from his trip with more money than he left before, so he knew that he was on to something.

Julian Sage:                       03:28                    In this episode, Joel talks about a lot of the practical things that you can start implementing in your business to be successful and to stand out from the competition. If you’d like my show notes or anything else we talked about in this episode, and then go to shorttermsage.com/str46 or if you’d like my show notes, send directly to your inbox every week. Then I’m going to shorttermsage.com/shownotes. With all that being said, onto this week’s conversation. Hey, welcome back host nation to another episode of short term rental success stories. In this episode I have the special honor of speaking with Joel Edwards. Joel, please let the audience know who you are and what inspired you to get into short term rentals.

Joel Edwards:                    04:01                    Yes. Hi. Thanks Julian for having me. My name’s Joel Edwards. I’ve been doing short term rentals now since 2012 and really was by accident. My partner and I were going on an extended vacation to Europe and to South America and we had a condo that we owned and it was furnished. So I had some friends that were doing vacation rental units and I asked them if they would take care of my property for me and manage it. They said they would. Long story short three months later I came back with more money than when I left before. So I knew I was onto something. So when I came back, I bought another condo. I’m in Phoenix, Arizona and just took it from there.

Julian Sage:                       04:39                    So you started 2012, you just, you had a fully furnished place, but going to be gone for — How long were you gone?

Joel Edwards:                    04:45                    We’re going to be gone for about three and a half months. So we were going to be leaving mid January and coming back about mid April. And it just so happens that’s the peak season here in Phoenix. That’s when we have spring training, spring training, baseball, golf tournaments. Everything’s going on. Everybody wants to be here. So it was just great timing for that.

Julian Sage:                       05:04                    Did you know going into that would be a profitable thing? Like how’d you even know to price it and was there a lot of competition in the area at that time?

Joel Edwards:                    05:13                    So in 2012, it definitely was not like it is right now. In 2019, seven years later, there’s a lot more competition. So back then, I didn’t know anything about it. I didn’t know anything about pricing, but I had a friend him and his wife, they had three vacation rental units and they were just neighbors of mine actually. So that’s how it was just a casual neighbor talking to them, seeing how they’re doing. And then I asked them if they would be open to managing it for me. So they came up with a pricing structure. They did the cleaning for me and they did everything and I just paid them a percentage. So I said, okay, well whatever money comes in, they’ve invoiced me at the end of the month. And that was it. That’s pretty much, I was, so it was totally hands off for me. I didn’t have anything to do with it. I was in Peru for six weeks, then I was in Prague for six weeks.

Julian Sage:                       05:58                    Wow. So, so while you were away, you came back with more money than when he went on the trip and then something clicked and you’re like, wow, there’s something here. What was the next progression with that?

Joel Edwards:                    06:09                    Yeah. So, so when I got back, I got back around April, may, somewhere around that time of 2012 so then that summer of 2012 it was still there, still were lots of foreclosures and short sales here in the Phoenix market. My background is real estate. I’ve been in real estate since 2005. I started off in California and then came out to Arizona in 2009. So Phoenix was hitting really hard during the recession. There was lots of foreclosures everywhere you look. So I had saved up a little bit of money and I was looking, I wanted to be in the general area of where I already live because I knew it was going to be easier for me to manage the property. So I found a one bedroom, one bath and it was a short sale and I was able to buy that property for approximately $51,000, so it was really, really dirt cheap.

Joel Edwards:                    06:59                    And I went there, I bought the property. It was a relatively fast closing, closing in about 30 days. So it was fall of 2012 and I wasn’t sure if it was going to work. I knew it worked for my property and when we were gone. So I said, okay, let me test it out. So I literally took all the furniture that we had at the condo we were living at and I kind of just took it over to the new property and then bought us new furniture just in case it didn’t work. Okay. Hey, I just, I lost them used first. I bought like a futon, you know, use tape. We used everything pretty much. I decorated it pretty sparsely but as good as I could do at that time. And same thing. At that time I actually started working with another company evolves, vacation rental and cause I was working full time doing real estate, helping buyers and sellers.

Joel Edwards:                    07:46                    So I didn’t really, I hadn’t dealt with any of the guests communication. I know the time that would take. So I started off working with them for a few months and it was great. I’d get an email and they tell me I have a reservation and they give me the dates and everything. And then I was the one doing the cleaning. I was the one doing the turnover and I did like working with them, but I felt like I could do this and I wanted to save more money as far as the percentage that I was paying them. So that’s spring of 2013 is when I took over and I had a great spring, had a great spring training on province, rented out about 90% of the time and I was excited about it and in that same complex there was a unit that became available and I bought another one, another one bedroom, one bath condo and I bought that one for around $58,000 and it just kept going from there. Or I’ve been trying to add one every year or so.

Julian Sage:                       08:36                    Yeah, you’ll have, you’ll have seven properties that you own now for the true cohost thing and you just picked up a rental arbitrage property. W what’s, what’s pretty interesting though is you got started really, you know, pretty, pretty early and you’re picking up these properties, but you weren’t, how are you analyzing these properties? Did you know the numbers were using comparables, having a real estate background, I imagine that you maybe had a little bit of an advantage how, what were you doing to be able to analyze these deals though?

Joel Edwards:                    09:01                    Yeah, so just from the perspective of having that real estate background, I definitely had a comparable as to know I wasn’t overpaying for any of the properties that I was buying. So that part was easy because with the MLS I had everything set up where I could run comps. That part was simple. As far as pricing on the vacation rental side of it, I would just look at the competition. I would look at the area that I was in and look within about a mile or two radius, first, similar properties that were comparable. And I would just, normally when I start off, because I don’t have any reviews, I was having, I was using price about 10 to 15% below the market. And then I would try to get my reviews and then once I had about three or four reviews, then I could know that I could increase the price and just go from there.

Joel Edwards:                    09:42                    So it was basically just looking at the competition through the RBO. Airbnb, FlipKey, TripAdvisor using all of those sites. I’d even check out local hotels because of the fact that I had one bedroom, one bath. They were somewhat comparable to what a hotel room may be. So I was just looking at all those and just putting the numbers into the system. And if it works, I would know cause I get bookings, I get occupancy. I was a little bit higher than I would just bring the prices down. And I was very active with the pricing, looking at it active.

Julian Sage:                       10:13                    How, how big of a difference was it when you transitioned because you were using a property manager at first for that first property, the second property you were started using evolve, but you were still doing some of the, some of the management yourself. But then you realize that that you could probably do this business maybe better yourself. How was that transition from going from using a property manager to managing it fully yourself and also scaling that business?

Joel Edwards:                    10:34                    Sure. it went relatively smooth and when I say that relatively smooth is because I’m a very hands on person. So one of the challenges for me personally was just kind of letting go because as I mentioned, I knew I was doing all the cleaning myself. When I first started, I actually was meeting guests, I was meet, I would meeting the guests there, showing them everything, giving them a tour, and with my background, real estate, you know, I loved it. It was great. I got to meet people from all over the world, have Canadians, people from Europe coming all over and I spend 30, 40 minutes at a time answering the questions. But I realized that if I was going to scale this to any degree, I couldn’t meet everyone in person. I couldn’t do all the cleaning. I was taking laundry home, finishing it there, because sometimes I’d have the same day turnover. So I, I realized relatively soon that in order for me to scale this, in order to be successful at it in any degree, I would have to kind of let some of those things go. So that’s when I hired a housekeeping service and I have a couple of housekeepers now. So that was really big for me of being able to do that and realize that.

Julian Sage:                       11:37                    So 2012 you had your first property, 2013 you purchased your second property and then by 2015 you had 10 properties and you were going full time at this. What happened within those two year period? That’s a, that’s a big progression.

Joel Edwards:                    11:50                    Yeah. So what happened is I picked up a couple of clients, so, so of those properties, of those 10, four of them are cohost and then I own six. And then their rental arbitrage. That was something that was new. It really was because I was making a pretty good profit from each property and I’m good at saving. So what I was able to do was just go ahead and, you know, save up my money and then go get another one and go get another one. So the goal was to try and get one or two a year and it was just from taking the profits from that and from real estate and then just going to go get another one. And the price points were so friendly here and Phoenix is what made it possible. You know, it’s not like I’m from California originally, so you can’t go in California and buy a property for $50,000. That just would never happen. So I think it was just really lucky. I was really fortunate to be here at a time where the price points were still relatively low to enter and to purchase.

Julian Sage:                       12:43                    What, what was the, what would be the difference of return? So let’s say, because you started pretty early and picking up all these properties in a time where Phoenix wasn’t as the prices weren’t as exaggerated as they are right now. Sure. What, what was the price that you could get as a longterm rental tenant though compared to what you were making as a short term? You know, even back 2013

Joel Edwards:                    13:05                    Sure they weren’t even close. You can make so much more money in short term rentals. I, I knew, even though I’m in real estate, I knew I didn’t want to be a landlord. And the reason was because I had worked with so many clients. I work with investors who the profit margins were so thin that at the end of a 12 month lease, if the tenant messed up the property, you know, paint a carpet, all of those type things, that’s your profit, you know, and the 13th month you have to get it ready for the next person. So I knew that didn’t really fit my personality for the amount of risk and for the return. So that’s why I fell in love with the short term rentals is because, so your question was how much is the rent? So a one bedroom at that time, a one bedroom, one bath and Phoenix would rent for about eight to $900 per month.

Joel Edwards:                    13:52                    In 2012 I was renting the unit out for approximately a hundred bucks a night and I was getting, like I say, about 90% occupancy, so I was making $2,500 $2,600 a month versus the 800 making three times as much money and it fit my personality great. Because the way I had my cancellation policy, I was getting paid 60 days in advance. I don’t have to chase anybody around for money. There was very low wear and tear on the property because most people, as you know, they’re just looking for a place that’s safe, clean. They’re going to go there and maybe have some breakfast, watch CNN, and then they’re out. They’re going to go explore, they’re going to go see what Phoenix has to offer. They’re going to spring training grand Canyon, they’re back in the evening shower, get some rest. So very, very low wear and tear. So it just fit my personality perfect. And it was triple the money. So it was kind of like a no brainer.

Julian Sage:                       14:42                    Wow. That’s pretty crazy because that’s what people think when they’re getting into the space and they want to get into short term rentals there. They’re looking at that $2,500 versus the $800. But is that, is that something that any investor can get into or was it because that you or managing it yourself that you are able to make these numbers possible?

Joel Edwards:                    15:04                    I think it was a combination. I think anyone can do short term rentals if you have the right personality for it. If you’re customer service driven it’s not really, it’s not really a real estate business in that sense. It’s more customer service. It’s how do you deal with people, how do you handle objections, how do you handle conflict? And so you always have to be able to say, okay, put yourself in the position of the customer and trying to go that extra mile. If you don’t have that personality, if you’re really worry about the small stuff like Oh, they lost the spoon, they lost a fork, how can they do? It’s probably not going to fit your personality. It may be best just to get a property management company and you just get an invoice in a statement at the end of the month and you don’t know what’s going on the day to day.

Joel Edwards:                    15:45                    If it my personality, because I’ve been doing real estate, so I know all about customers, how to handle different people and how to work with people to achieve what it is that they’re looking for. And I always come to perspective of, I know people work very hard for that two weeks vacation, so I want to try to provide the best value for them and also provide the best customer service and nothing’s going to run perfectly. So when there are those issues that do come up, try to resolve it as quickly and as easily as possible for the guest. Not even about myself, but what’s going to make them happy. And most of the time they just want to be listened to and want to be heard. What’s, you know that there if there’s a complaint or there’s an issue. So that’s why I really try to focus on, I think anyone can do the business whether or not they can manage it themselves. Maybe, maybe not. It did fit my personality pretty well.

Julian Sage:                       16:29                    Yeah. I love, I love what you said and that’s something that we always preach on on our other show vacation rental machine is that this is such, this is not a real estate business. You know, there, there are components to real estate but this is so much more hospitality and you like what you said, having the personality to be able to do this is really what allows you to be able to reach those numbers. And going off of that, you’ve seen Phoenix really grow and the prices have increased and probably a lot more people are coming into the market as short term rental hosts. What, what, what is the numbers look like now? Is it still a green market? Is there still a lot of profitability or is it a little bit too oversaturated now? And there’s a, the rent’s too high, too many, too much competition. What’s your perspective on that?

Joel Edwards:                    17:09                    My take on it is that there’s always going to be opportunity, definitely 100% from where I started in 2012 to where it’s at today. It’s definitely much more saturated. So I just have to change with the times. So for example, this past summer I bought a another condo. I bought a two bedroom two bath condo. They cost me $160,000. So you can see prices tripled since in the last seven years. But that one costs me $160,000. I put another $20,000 for renovations into the property head to toe, new flooring and paint on new new countertops, brand new appliances. So what I’ve learned is you really have to step your game up. Now if you’re going to shine, because there are lots of properties out there, you can click on them and the pictures aren’t done by a professional photographer are the bed linens are messed up.

Joel Edwards:                    18:01                    All of those things that you could have gotten away with in 2012 and still been profitable. It’s not going to happen now. Definitely not. That’s not what I see. What I see, especially with Airbnb plus programs, VRVO has the premier partner program. All those things that you have to really step your game up. You have to have these moments, these social media moments for people. Now this last unit that I purchased, I bought a PAC man machine, which is something I would have never thought about doing before. I picked it up in Costco. It was a $400 estimate. It’s a really cool stand up arcade Pac-Man machine has a little stool with it. I’m sorry I couldn’t that little investment there and put it in the corner for people like play Pacman. I felt like, okay that’s going to relate to my seniors cause I do to get a lot of senior citizens and seniors.

Joel Edwards:                    18:49                    They were coming down during spring training but it’s also gonna relate to younger people and they want a video game. I bought a record player that plays 45 records and it’s also Bluetooth. I picked that up for 40 bucks. So just those little things. It’s not a lot of money. It’s $450 investment. Well those are kind of my two little things too. And when I, when I hired my photographer, you must have professional photography. If you’re not doing professional photography and you’re not investing that hundred Joe $125 depending on what your market is in a professional photographer, you’re doing yourself a total disservice. So when I had my photographer there, I asked them, highlight these things, high like Pac-Man machine, how like the record player and there are so many things that you can do that are one time costs. Cause that’s the main thing for me. If I can have my one time cost, that’s fine. So long as it’s not a recurring monthly costs. And I’ve had my eyes since I’ve had that rent out, I literally had guests. Oh I love the PAC man machine. That’s the reason I picked your place and that’s what I had envisioned for that based upon that similar investment.

Julian Sage:                       19:50                    Wow. So have you been tracking that and have you gotten that return on investment back?

Joel Edwards:                    19:54                    Definitely, definitely. It’s only been a couple of months since I had the property up and running, but I know for sure because people have told me that’s why they booked the place was because they saw that Pac-Man machine. I actually had one guest that I met in person and he said, man, they took me back. You know, they took me back to the mid eighties it was so much fun and he probably wasn’t as, you know, 50s or something of that nature. So he really enjoyed it. So it was great.

Julian Sage:                       20:17                    Wow. I love, I love that Joel. And I think that’s just so cool because that really is making the point that you’re doing things to be able to stand out. Is this moving forward though, is, is it going to be putting in, let’s say those record players and those Pacman machines that’s going to make you be able to stand out? If you just kept your properties the same, do you think that you’d be able to do as well as you did prior?

Joel Edwards:                    20:38                    No, I wouldn’t be able to do as well if I just kept everything the same. It’s definitely, that’s the minimum bar for me now is to have at least a couple of focal points that can be highlighted and sometimes entertainment. I think it’s a given now. It’s a given. Everybody has smart TVs that used to be something that you can distinguish yourself with a few years ago, Oh, I have a smart TV with Netflix. You know, Hulu. Everybody has that now. It doesn’t matter. Oh, it’s mounted. Okay. Everybody mounts their TVs now. You know, those things are all pretty standard. You should be having those. You should have your TV as a flat screen, should be a smart TV, comfortable beds. Everybody’s going to have Conoco, everybody’s has a Casper and all these different companies out there. They’re relatively affordable and everybody knows you should have these comfortable beds and comfortable couch and dining.

Joel Edwards:                    21:22                    To me those are just the bare minimums. So I think the things that you can do to stand out, whether that’s video games or this record player, yeah, the space for it, ping pong table, make it a game house, you know, not where you’re going to have a party, but maybe monopoly games you know, chess and checkers and all these things. Whenever you can highlight it just to say, Hey, I’m a little bit different. This is why you’re going to choose me as opposed to my neighbor that has everything I have but doesn’t have a, B or C.

Julian Sage:                       21:47                    Being a real estate agent and also purchasing a lot of properties yourself, you’re, you’re probably really familiar with what the market you know, where the market is. Are you specifically targeting short term rental properties when you’re working with clients? Are you working specifically with vacation rentals?

Joel Edwards:                    22:02                    So, no, I have all types of clients on the real estate side of it. I help out buyers. I help out sellers, people that may be looking for a second home or even people that are looking for their primary residence. However, when it’s specifically short term rental clients that I’m working with, then yes, I can definitely gear them in the right direction as to which complex is going to be friendly to it. Which homeowner associations going to be friendly to it. Yeah. Which ones to stay clearer because they may have certain things in the CCNRs with restrictions as far as 31 day minimum rental, things of that nature. So it’s, it’s, it’s both.

Julian Sage:                       22:34                    And what, what are you looking for specifically with properties now? When you’re planning on purchasing them? That would make sense as a good short term rental.

Joel Edwards:                    22:41                    What I look for are amenities. If I’m purchasing it in a condo complex, which is everything that I have right now, I haven’t ventured into the single family residence yet, but what I looked for at minimum or a pools, a gym, clubhouse would be nice. Things of that nature, barbecue, a clubhouse, all those little extra amenities that you’re going to have an HOA fee, but at least you’re getting something in return for that because that’s usually a, when people come to Phoenix, that’s where they’re thinking about. They’re thinking about the pool, the hot tub, you know Palm trees, those type things. So having those nice amenities to say, okay, this is the space, but now when you’re outside, you can go to the pool. It’s a heated pool, hot tub, barbecue area. Loungers I think all of those amenities are a must. I would never purchase something, and I’m not saying it doesn’t work. I’m sure everybody, it works for different people, but I wouldn’t personally buy something or recommend something that didn’t have at least those bare amenities that the community offers, good location, close to the airport, that type of thing.

Julian Sage:                       23:41                    What do you think are the biggest mistakes that people are doing? Because a Phoenix in Arizona, it’s, it’s, it’s pretty short term rental friendly. And you’re talking about like HOA is and, and you know, condos and those are places that, you know, the rest of the U S they’re like, Oh, stay away from those places, stay away from, you know, certain States. But have you noticed that because it is so friendly there that people are coming into the market and maybe picking up the wrong properties or doing things wrong. What’s your perspective on short term rentals in the Phoenix area because it is so friendly.

Joel Edwards:                    24:13                    Yeah. So I think that there are a lot of people that have jumped into it have jumped into the vacation rental market cause like you said, Phoenix is very friendly to it. I think some of the things that they could possibly be doing wrong is pricing. I feel like sometimes they’re pricing too low. Honestly, I think that sometimes they’re jumping into it and they may have been coming from an investor’s perspective where they’re used to $1,000 a month in rent. So if they can get $1,500 or $1,600 they may be leaving money on the table. I think sometimes not having a professional property manager are sometime insight into pricing. You can leave money on the table. I also think that bringing up professional photography, I think that I look at lots of Airbnbs and I’d say only about 20 or 30% here in the Phoenix market appear to have those professionals, photographs.

Joel Edwards:                    25:01                    Lots of them, they look like it’s just on the cell phone. That type of thing. Response time key. When I look at the competition sometimes I see on there and they get back within 24 hours and that’s just way too long. And maybe that’s because they have a full time job. Maybe that’s because they have a family they can’t respond. So I think that, I know for sure that the reason that I keep my occupancy so high for myself and for my clients is before even smart BNB, as we talked about, I’ve just been using that for the last couple of weeks before all of that, I would respond to people on average within about seven minutes. That’s just being on my own. Because as soon as someone sends me a message, I’m responding, I’m giving them something. Hey, even if I’m at a movie, you know, I’m that guy that will pull the, pull my jacket over so it doesn’t disturb anybody else.

Joel Edwards:                    25:51                    But you know, I’ll let them know, Hey, I’m in a movie right now, but I’m going to respond to you shortly. I did get your message, but that was before smart BNB. So now I don’t have to worry about doing that. But response time, do you not responding to people within 10 minutes? I do believe you’re leaving a great percentage of revenue and profit off the table. You know, you think, Oh, I’ll get back in 30 minutes is good enough. No, whoever responds to that client first usually is going to be able to have a higher probability of getting that booking, which is going to result in more nights, more money, more fogged up. So those are the top three things I would say you have to do in order to be successful at it. And be successful.

Julian Sage:                       26:28                    And you’ve, you’ve got also a diverse portfolio. You, you do co-hosting, you have a rental arbitrage unit and you own, can you give some perspective on the different models and which is the one that you prefer?

Joel Edwards:                    26:41                    Sure. I’m in real estate, so I love owning things. I think that rental arbitrage is great. I really do. But I do like owning property a for the equity that you can get potentially if the home appreciates. I like that the tax incentives are riding off the tax insurance. I like that. And ultimately if it is a downmarket or if something should happen and rental arbitrage, if apartment houses become less friendly to that, at least I still own this piece of real estate that I can sell, that type of thing. So I say primarily I like owning things. I’m an owner. However, for return on investment, if you’re just looking at straight ROI on your money, I think rental arbitrage is the way to go. This past summer I got my first property and I was able to furnish that property for five to $6,000.

Joel Edwards:                    27:31                    Mmm. Which is very affordable. I have my lease, I right now for the month of January, I have approximately $5,000 of bookings coming in for January, 2020 and my rent at that property is $1,200 a month. Yup. 1200 bucks a month. I signed a five year lease. This is a private homeowner. So I signed a five year lease with this gentleman. Because he was looking, he knew that, Oh, that’s great. I get somebody in here for five years. He didn’t have to have that turnover. So my, my rent there is $1,200 a month with internet, electricity Netflix, that type stuff. It’s another two, two 50. So my break even on that is about $1,500 per month. I divide that by 30 days. I’m looking at about $50. So anything over $50 a day is profit. January, I’m renting out approximately 175 to $200 per night.

Joel Edwards:                    28:26                    February, March, same way. So during those three months, it’s going to pay almost for the entire year’s worth of the rent. And then in the summertime, the goal, again, prices are going to drop drastically. But if I can break even and then just wait for those months, get my reviews up. I think I’m about 10 reviews now on Airbnb. I’m a super host on Airbnb, so all those different type things help. So for my $6,000 investment, I’m not a mathematician, but it’s going to be a much higher return than my $180,000 that I spent on the property that I bought and renovated. So I think every model can work. It just depends upon what you want to do. What’s your exit strategy is all of those types of things. I love it all.

Julian Sage:                       29:11                    I mean, I mean, no, no one that you know, now with the rental arbitrage model is that something that you would double down on or are you still kind of keeping that as just maybe a way of taking that money and then diverting it into your own owning them?

Joel Edwards:                    29:25                    That’s a great question. So I’m actually in communication right now, last weekend because the rental arbitrage is, is going so well with that first property, which is a two bedroom, two bath. I went to six different complexes in the Phoenix area that’s around area and just pitch them, you know, this is what I’m doing, this is what I’m looking to do. And I got five no’s, but I got one. Yes. so I’ve been in communication actually this morning went that complex trying to come to terms with what the monthly rent would be there to try to make it work. And I just, I was just honest with him. I tell him, you know, this is where I need my numbers to be. Cause they were slightly above where I wanted it to be, is the seeing if they would negotiate something. I even offered to pay three months in advance if that were trying to sweeten the pot. So rental arbitrage is definitely something that I will add too. I don’t see, there’s, there’s no reason not to add to it and I think it’s just another way to diversify. I think that’s, that’s the way I look at it.

Julian Sage:                       30:19                    And in that, in that market, because you know, Arizona, Phoenix, it is such a friendly market for short term rentals. Ha has, has that gained a lot of attention of a lot of people that are trying to, you know, take advantage of that or using these types of models like rent like run a sub leasing?

Joel Edwards:                    30:36                    Yeah. Yeah, it definitely has. And historically Arizona has been very friendly, but I just read an article that in the new year, in January, I guess it’s going to the state legislature there have something on the ballot with regards to short term rentals and maybe limiting days or some, so it hasn’t been voted on yet. Knock on wood, that they still remain friendly to it. The governor has maintained that he wants to be pro-business and friendly to short term rentals. So I’m, I’m hopeful that it will continue that way. But it definitely has brought a lot of people to the, to the market for that.

Julian Sage:                       31:08                    Also your perspective on co-hosting, how, how has your relationship been with co-hosting and the clients? And the returns on that as well.

Joel Edwards:                    31:16                    It’s been great. So I have three clients. I have one client that’s on the East coast in Maryland and they’re wonderful people, a husband, wife and they, they have a couple of units that I helped him purchase last year and they rent those properties out and I do the coasting for them. And then I have two other clients. One client has a two bedroom, two bath and my other client has a one bedroom, one bath. So that’s been great as well. The, the model that I have with them is I do everything. I just invoice them at the end of the month. So I handle all of the guests communication, I handle all of the supplies, I handle housekeeping, coordination, guests, communication reviews. So it’s totally hands off for them, which I think is great for them because that’s what they wanted. They wanted something that would kind of just run for them as a machine.

Joel Edwards:                    32:00                    And the way that I work, I look at those properties as if they’re my very own. So the same eye, the same item detail. When I look at it, I give it the exact same care, the exact same detail, because I know that I take pride in what I do and I know that if I want somebody to do the same thing for me, you know it’s a win win that the best job that I can do for them, it’s going to get more revenue for them, more revenue for me. So that’s the way I look at those properties and I love the coast and I think it’s a, again, it’s another way to diversify. I think that any way that you can diversify yourself in this day and age when it’s so easy to do so, there’s so much opportunity. Whether that’s owning, rental, co-hosting, you can make it, you can nest, you know, some things for all the listeners out there, don’t study things too hard.

Joel Edwards:                    32:48                    Don’t overthink things too much. Do it, you know, do your research for sure if you’re, if you have that personality, but ultimately you have to pull the trigger. You have to go out there and you try it. And I think for somebody that’s limited on cash, I think rental arbitrage is a no brainer. That’s the way to go. You know, if you don’t have the money to do it or you can’t qualify for a loan, that’s a great way for you to do it. But I think big picture from those revenues, I would always recommend investing real estate, buy something, buy land, buy condo, buy a house, duplex all of those things.

Julian Sage:                       33:19                    But there comes a point when you can only own so many properties and then you have to, you know, cause you are you, are you taking all of these with cash or are you getting loans on these?

Joel Edwards:                    33:29                    So I’ve been fortunate enough that the condos I’ve been able to buy at a price point where it afforded me the opportunity to buy them all cash. So I’ve been very, very fortunate with that. So those properties are owned free and clear. There’s no more years or anything of that nature on those. And then the co-hosting, you know, obviously I don’t own the properties there. So Phoenix market has been very good to me.

Julian Sage:                       33:52                    Would you, would you keep on doubling down in the Phoenix market or would you be open to going to new markets as well?

Joel Edwards:                    33:57                    You know what, that’s a great question. At one time I went to Florida, this was about three years ago. I went to I went to Orlando. I also went over to Tampa cause they have spring training. So I went to a few different cities and the price points at that point a few years ago were very similar to where the price points would be for Phoenix. And I considered that market, but I don’t know anyone there. I didn’t know anyone there and I still don’t. So I would be open to it for the future. I’d never say never, but it’s not something I’m actively looking at right now.

Julian Sage:                       34:31                    What has been the most challenging part of scaling your short term rental business?

Joel Edwards:                    34:35                    I say the hardest part is finding good partners as far as housekeeping and cleaning, because I don’t do any of the cleaning myself unless there’s like an emergency or if it’s a really, really busy time, then I’ll jump in. But the hardest part is really finding a cleaning service that’s reliable. Somebody that’s going to do a good job, have that attention to detail because that’s what guests are looking for. That’s the main thing. When they’re going there, they walk in there and they see a hair on the bathtub. It can be a great property with everything else, but if they see that that’s going to give you a four star review instead of a five star review, you get enough of those, you know, it’s just negative all the way around. So I think really finding the right partners, whether that’s housekeeping handymen that are reliable, that can be there, that’s been the most challenging part for me. And I’ve been very fortunate over these years to work with some very great people.

Julian Sage:                       35:23                    And is there anything that you’re doing to be able to have your guests leave positive reviews?

Joel Edwards:                    35:28                    Yes. so one of the things that I do and I, it’s something is just implementing. I check in with them the day after they check in. So right after that morning when they wake up, I have an email waiting for them. And I just am asking them, Hey, you know, hope, I see everything, hope everything’s going well, that you checked in smoothly so that I feel that little extra touch that shows that you’re really care. Another thing that I like to do is the day before that they are checking out, I just send them a quick text or message through Airbnb, thanking them for their visit. Just give them the reminder for the reminder of the checkout time and also walking them back. So those are two key points. And then after they check out, usually Airbnb will send a, a request for review and I just asked them, you know, if they’re, if they have time to leave a review, that would be great. And I tell them what my goal is. I say, you know, my goal for each guest is to try to earn a five star review. And hopefully I did that in your case. And if there’s anything that I can prove upon letting me know, but I do use the word earn and not, not give it to me.

Julian Sage:                       36:29                    I want to go back on something real quick because you’ve been, you know, just realizing that you’ve been full time, a short term rental property managing for nearly five years now. W what is, what does a day in the life of a full time for five years look like?

Joel Edwards:                    36:45                    It’s a long day. I’m all, you can ask my girlfriend. I’m always on. And what I mean by that is I’m very attentive to my guests and what it is that they need, what it is that they want. So usually when I wake up in the morning, I check my email, inbox check, Airbnb VRBO flip key. Usually it’s a good morning when I wake up and I see that there’s money that’s there waiting, that I had a reservation that came in. So it’s just responding to those guests, thanking them for their reservation, checking to see, and I have all of this automated now but just checking to see what time they would be arriving. What time did they, would they be checking out? If they need an early check in early checkout, that type thing, asking for their contact informationwhat brought into the city, what brought them to Phoenix and I use all those things.

Joel Edwards:                    37:34                    So for example, I’ll give you a perfect example. I have a guest last week. Her husband unfortunately had a stroke. So she was here with her husband and they live locally, but they live in the East Valley. They live like in Chandler. And his treatment was going to be taking place closer to where I have one of my condoms. They stayed with me for about 13 nights and she told me that they’re in because I asked, Oh, what brings you to town? Cause not everything is a happy vacation. So I wanted to know w what the reason was. And she told me that her husband had a stroke and so I told her, you know, I’m really sorry about that and I hope that he has a speedy recovery. And I related to that because my father, I have past experience. My father had a stroke back in 2013 so I sent her a personal message and I just told her, you know, I know that Mmm, having a stroke can be difficult, not only for the stroke victim, but also for the loved ones.

Joel Edwards:                    38:23                    I said, so, you know, I really just want to commend you for taking care of your husband. Tell your husband to stick in there. You know, with all the treatment, occupational therapy, I know there’s a lot of work that goes with that. So stick with it. And she was really moved by that, you know, she was really thankful that it wasn’t and it wasn’t just like a rental experience. It’s not just, you know, you’re my guest and I’m the host. You know, I really try to bring a personal experience when I can to each guest. And she checked out this past Saturday and she said that she was going to be coming back the following week and she would love to stay at one of my properties. The one that she stayed at was not available, but I did have another unit that was available and she’s going to check in tomorrow and they’re gonna check in for free nights.

Joel Edwards:                    39:05                    And it becomes, you know, more of a, a friendship, so to speak, even though we never met, never seen her or anything like that. So that’s, that’s really powerful to me. You know, that’s the reason that I really enjoy this business is because I get to host people that are on vacation. They’re here for just a great time, but then people that are here for real life stuff that happens. So if I can provide them with a safe, clean, Mmm comfortable place for them to stay. And that means a lot to me and from, and to them.

Julian Sage:                       39:35                    I really liked that you shared that because you know, especially with when we’re talking like on our other show, vacation rental machine, we’re always talking about automation, but we talk about the hospitality and it really goes hand in hand. But I really like what you made a point is that it can’t just be fully automated because you would have missed something right there that, that point to be able to relate with someone to be able to add that human touch where, you know, maybe she wasn’t expecting that or maybe she wasn’t looking for that, but because you are able to provide that, that human aspect, you’re never going to get that anywhere else.

Joel Edwards:                    40:10                    100%. Yup. I agree with that. So, yeah, I mean that’s a typical day; coordinating housekeeping, taking care of all that and making sure all the payments gets to now and making sure my housekeepers get paid on time.

Joel Edwards:                    40:22                    Oh, there’s, there’s lots that goes, goes along with it. But it’s all fun. I mean, it’s all great. I wouldn’t have it any other way. I have worked as an employee before and I’ve worked for some great companies and I worked for some good companies and I worked for some not so good companies. So I know what it’s like and I wouldn’t trade it for anything in the world. The fact that I have freedom that’s what success equals to me. The fact that if I wanted to go, my niece graduated from UC Berkeley, the fact that I don’t have to ask anybody if I can go see her, go see her for her graduation or we did a family trip to Hawaii. I don’t have to check with anybody on anything. And if you have the right systems in place, if you have the right partners in place and you treat people the way that you would like to be treated, you can be successful.

Joel Edwards:                    41:09                    Not only in anything but especially in short term rental vacation. So I wouldn’t change anything in the world with owning my own business and expansion. You know, you can grow it to whatever you envision it to be, however you, how ever big you want something to be, you can do it. And I think with the short term rental business, that’s, that’s evident. You know, if you want to go out and get another rental arbitrage property and there’s nothing stopping you, you can go do it. You just have to be persistent. And it gives you freedom. I mean, there’s not many people that can say, I want to go on vacation for a month or I want to go do this. They have to check, they have to check somebody. And there’s nothing wrong with that. You know, everybody has to start somewhere, have a job. But if you have an entrepreneurial spirit and you have a drive to want to become a business owner, I think the short term rentals is a great way to get started. And you never know where that might lead to. That might lead into something else or something, something there. But you get started in it and your mind starts it, you know, you start to think differently. You start to think as an owner,

Julian Sage:                       42:07                    You’ve been in the space for a while now, at seven years and you’ve seen the progression of Airbnb, you’ve seen the market grow. Are you not worried that there’s too much market interest or that there’s over-saturation or all the new people that are coming into the space or what? What’s your take on that?

Joel Edwards:                    42:24                    No, I’m not worried about it because I set a very high bar for myself and for my properties. And I think that the attention to detail that I give, I think that because it’s that personal touch, none of us can be replicated. You know, Julian can’t be replicated. The personal customer service that you give that can’t be replicated, that only belongs to you. And you know, the customer service that I have, it can’t be replicated. So I think that so long as you can stand out because so many people are getting involved in it, they’re getting involved with it many times for the money side of it, and don’t get me wrong, money’s great. You know, we all need money, we all want money. But if you’re looking at it strictly from that perspective, which I think a lot of people get into it, they’re like, Oh, I can make how much return, but I can make 100% or I can make 200% I can get how much they’re just looking at the numbers and that will eventually over time reflect in the reviews.

Joel Edwards:                    43:20                    Reviews are the bread and butter of any business nowadays, and especially vacation rental. So somebody gets into, it’s strictly for the money side of it, which I don’t know what percentage that is. Let’s just say half of people get into it just for the money side of it. That’s going to reflect in the reviews over time because there’s not going to be the care. There’s not every response. There’s not going to be those things that are in place. But the fact that I’m not in, it’s solely for the money, but it’s also provide an experience. It’s also to provide all those different things to my guests. I think that’s what’s going to make it different for me or for the next guy that does it that way, or the next gal that goes that way. So I think competition is a great thing. I really do.

Joel Edwards:                    44:01                    I always encourage people to, there’s more than enough business out there for everyone. I don’t feel like there’s anything that’s in short supply because you will always, the good will always rise to the top and everybody else would kind of plateau and there’s gonna be certain people that get out of it. So competition is there, but what it’s done is it’s enhanced my business development. It’s enhanced my eye. It’s enhanced my a key to detail. All those things, listening to your program, all those things have really helped to say, like when we talked earlier, I just started using dynamic pricing. I never used it before. I started recently using, I’d never used automation with smart BNB. I start using now all of these things are investments that I have to grow and I realize that because if I don’t and everybody else is using it, where is it going to leave me? So I think that saturation is there, but you can still do it. There’s still an opportunity there and you just have to see what makes you unique and what’s different and then bring that to the table.

Julian Sage:                       45:03                    Are you, because you are a real estate agent and you’ve been doing this for quite a long time, are you doubling down on the property management or are you just holding the, the real estate there? Are you, are you playing with both? What, what’s, how do you manage both of those?

Joel Edwards:                    45:17                    So with the property management so far, it’s just been word of mouth. It hasn’t been something that I’ve actively been going out to seek or anything of that nature. That’s something that for the new year, for 2020, that’s definitely on my business plan to go out there and develop to do more of a property management. I’m open to that. I think it’s a great way to grow, to grow my business in a different way because I can’t own all the real estate. I can’t own everything, so it’s better to go out there and help others. So, so it’s definitely something that I’m looking to grow.

Julian Sage:                       45:46                    And as far as your your real estate background, are you planning on, still actively pursuing that or is it because of you know, short term rentals and, and this type of you know, the business and the returns that you’d be more interested in going that way compared to traditional real estate transactions?

Joel Edwards:                    46:05                    Sure. So traditional real estate, I will always have my real estate license. I’ll always practice real estate cause I love real estate. Right now though, most of the business is going to be referral business, past clients, things of that nature, word of mouth. What I’m really looking to grow is the short term rental side of it. Whether that’s through coasting, rental arbitrage, purchasing properties. That’s where I really envisioned myself is delve even more so into that space. And then the real estate side of it will play a key factor because there going to be people that are looking to get into that space and I can help them purchase the property or sell the property, that type of thing.

Julian Sage:                       46:43                    What’s your, what’s your reasoning? Is it just because you enjoy the property management Airbnb stuff or is it because it’s more scalable?

Joel Edwards:                    46:51                    I think it’s both of those, it’s definitely more scalable. I enjoy it a lot more. Sometimes with the real estate side of it, while I, that is my background, that’s what I’ve done. I like new challenges, you know, it’s something that when I, I started, like I said, 2005, so I’ve been doing it now for about 14, 15 years and it’s something that I enjoyed, but I want something new. I want something that’s different and that’s what the short term rental space has really brought to me.

Julian Sage:                       47:17                    And what would you do if you did have to start from scratch?

Joel Edwards:                    47:21                    If I had to start from scratch, number one thing would be don’t over analyze anything too much. Just get started. I have done that so many times where the opportunity then passes by because by nature I am very conservative. So I would say just get started. That’s number one. I think number two is try to find the right partners as soon as possible. Cleaning service. A handyman, that type thing. Try to get that. Try to get the help, ask for the help. I would say also educate yourself. Mmm. You know, I wasn’t in 2012 I wasn’t watching YouTube videos or anything like that on the space. 2013 I wasn’t, I wasn’t doing any of that type stuff. It was just me coming up with these ideas. Oh, I think that would be a good idea. So I think seeking hello, asking the right questions, seeking people that have been where you want to be and reaching out to them, asking that usually people are very helpful.

Joel Edwards:                    48:18                    You know, using people are going to do that. I’d say that’s going to be key. And then also just having the confidence to know that if this is something that you want to do, you’re going to be successful in it. You know everybody’s going to be a little scared or insecure when they first start anything new. But with enough practice, enough time you can get there. And your partners treat your partners well, cleaning staff, cleaning partners, your handyman, all of those things. Treat them well. Treat them with respect because they are going to be and they are the bread and butter of what it is that you do. And if they care about your property, it’s going to be because they care about you. If you’re just saying, I’m going to pay you 75 bucks for cleaning, go do my job. Go do the cleaning cause I don’t want to do it. If you look at it with that attitude, they can see that. They will know that. So treat your partners well, treat your guests well, be customer centric. You know, those are all just a few things that I can think of off the top of my head in order to be successful in this space.

Julian Sage:                       49:19                    I know you mentioned quite a, quite a few things, but if you could give one piece of advice who’s looking to get started into this business, what, what would that be?

Joel Edwards:                    49:26                    Start today. That would be my advice. If you’re doing rental arbitrage, you might be scared. Go to an apartment house, tell him what you want to do. Just get started. Just because what’s going to happen is it’s going to become easier when, when you wait too long, you become scared. The opportunity passes. So just, just go do it. That’s what I would recommend. You know, if you can start in that space

Julian Sage:                       49:52                    And because you have, you, you have done all, all the models, you’ve done the home-share, you’ve done the arbitrage, co-hosting, owning where, where do you see would be best fit for people that are just getting into the space?

Joel Edwards:                    50:04                    I think if you’re just getting started and you have an opportunity and extra room, I think a shared space in your personal space would be a great way to start. The reason is because you’re already there and so long as you’re comfortable with new people in your home, trust me, Airbnb, people, everybody’s good. You know, 90 those horror stories that you hear, that’s exactly what they are. They’re horror that happen every once in awhile. It is not the truth. As far as what the standard is, what it is. So as you mentioned, I do cohost I’m sorry, I do have a shared space in my home. I have a five bedroom home and I rent out two rooms during the peak season. I rent on upstairs bedroom and bathroom and a downstairs bedroom, bathroom. And in a year during the peak season, I have about 60 different guests.

Joel Edwards:                    50:52                    They come into my home. Everyone has been great. You know, you meet new people, you have some experiences that you get to talk about and most of the time they’re just going to be out and about. They don’t want to hang out there at your house. Most of the time they’re just wanting a place to, you know, clean. They can get a good night’s rest and then they’re outside seeing. So if you’re just getting started, if you have an extra room or an extra space, I’d say throw it on Airbnb. And, and rent that out as a shared space. That way you’re going to get used to having customers. You’re going to get used to having people come into your space what their questions are. I think that would be an excellent way to get started and help to offset your mortgage and or rent.

Julian Sage:                       51:31                    And going off of that, is there, is there a house rule that you’ve started including from all of the guests that you’ve had that you that you wouldn’t leave without?

Joel Edwards:                    51:40                    That I wouldn’t leave without Mmm. I would say yes. I am a big strict no smoking. That’s something that you can’t smoke inside my home or in the backyard. So that’s a rule that I have. Not only for my own personal home, but also for all my rental properties. My number one house rule, there’s no smoking. Because I don’t want the place to smell. I smoke. I want to be able to advertise it to people that it’s a non-smoking home. I can’t tell you how many guests have told me, Oh, I chose your home because it was non-smoking. So I think that would be the number one rule for me. No smoking, no drug use, that type stuff.

Julian Sage:                       52:20                    And what’s a question that, that you have maybe for someone that’s in a similar place than you, or maybe the next step in your progression for scaling? What’s a question that you’d ask them?

Joel Edwards:                    52:31                    I’d want to know because I’ve been fortunate enough to buy the properties. Cash. How do you really scale as far as if you want to use the leverage, I know there’s hard money lenders and things of that nature out there, but what would be their, their recommendation as far as using leverage to get let’s say like a four unit place? Cause that’s something that’s also been on my mind, just getting like a triplex or four unit or a six unit place. That’s all in one and I can run it just as an Airbnb. So you have the economies of scale with being able to have housekeeping all there. So that’s something I’d really be interested in knowing. How do you get that leverage? What did they recommend as far as getting it and then also aspect people that are running for unit three, unit six unit places. What would their advice be on getting those properties and maintain them? Well, what amenities would they provide? If you have that space, did you get a pool? Would you put in a pool? I think that’s something that I’d be interested in from somebody who has, I’m more experienced than I do.

Julian Sage:                       53:28                    Awesome. Well, thank you so much. And is there, is there anything that you’re doing now? Like any books that you’re listening to or books that you listen, I, you can tell I only listened to audio books, but are there any books that you’re reading or are things that you’re following or something that has really changed you before?

Joel Edwards:                    53:44                    Yeah as far as things that I’m doing I’m listening to more podcasts. A great podcast I listened to is how I built this which is through NPR, a guy, Ross. And I think it’s, it’s something that I started listening to over the last year or so, and it’s been great because I can listen to it when I’m at the gym. I can listen to it when I’m driving. And what he does is he interviews different people just like what you’re doing and it’s people from all different types of walks of life. He’s interviewed people from bird species to Mark Cuban. The guy that started Dyson vacuums, he has dozens of people that he’s interviewed and listening and it’s usually, the podcasts usually were between like 30 to 60 minutes. So it’s not that much time. And it’s really interesting to hear where they started, where they were at, where they’re going.

Joel Edwards:                    54:35                    And it’s really inspirational for me. You know, it doesn’t seem like it, but it’s like, okay, I can listen to the guy that started Dyson vacuum. How does that relate to me? Because everybody, usually they have these rejections, they have these nos, they have these things. It’s a very, it’s very far and few in between that things start off 100% right. And I remember one thing, I listened to a podcast with Mark Cuban and the guy asked him, one of the things he asked him at the end of each podcast is, do you think that your success comes by about, by luck or is it just through you and your hard work ingenuity? Which one would you recommend? Or which one would you say? And Mark Cuban said, you have to be lucky to be a billionaire. In his opinion, he sold his company at the right time.

Joel Edwards:                    55:20                    It was at the peak, you know, of Yahoo or whatever. He said, you have to be lucky to be a billionaire, but you take it all away tomorrow and I can be a millionaire. Like no doubt. He said, what I would do is I’d have a sales job in the daytime. I’d be a bartender at night and in the evening time I work on my own plan. Those would be the three things that he would do. So I kind of agree with that. I think that you have to be pretty lucky, kind of like one of the lotto to be a billionaire. But I think anyone can become a millionaire. It’s attainable, it’s achievable. And I think that if you work hard, you go at it you can definitely do it. So I’d say listen to more podcasts. I think that would be my recommendation.

Julian Sage:                       55:59                    Wow. Thanks. Thanks so much, Joel. I just want to comment. I think you just have such a wonderful personality. You’re very very bright and very warm even out of the sun shining down in your face right now. But thank you so much. You’ve shared so much are really golden information in this episode. If anybody does want to reach out to you, if they have any questions or if they’re maybe looking in the Phoenix area, what’s the best way to be able to reach you?

Joel Edwards:                    56:21                    Yeah, I’m, you can all have my cell phone number if you want that. It’s (602) 688-4059. I hopefully don’t get blown up too much, but or my email is joeledwards27@gmail.com. So I’m pretty open to anybody has any questions?

Julian Sage:                       56:38                    Awesome. Well thank you so much Joel again for taking the time.

Julian Sage:                       56:42                    And until next time, host nation, keep on hosting. Hope you hosts benefit from the show. If you found value, please go on over to iTunes, leave us a review and let us know what you enjoy about the show. If you’d like to talk to hosts that have been featured in these episodes as well as the community, go on over to our Facebook group the the host nation.